i know someone who wants to breed dogs. dont know what to tell them

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squeak em if you- got em
Barked: Fri Mar 15, '13 11:19am PST 
What do you say to someone who is planning on being a backyard breeder? they live in la la land where the puppies will find great homes and everything will be sunshine and flowers.

this person knows nothing about breeding. the dogs came from backyard breeders themselves.I wish they wouldnt do this because it goes back everything ive worked for. there are way to many shelter dogs in this area. but they assume "purebreds" will never be abused or turn up in a shelter and dont seem to care at all. its so frustrating.
Jake & Sweet- Caroline

Tricolored- Hounds for life!
Barked: Fri Mar 15, '13 12:53pm PST 
Tell them to do it legally they most likely need a kennel license or they could face a huge fine. ANd tell them to go to a local shelter and see how many puppies end up there because they go to homes that can't keep them.

Then maybe have them go see a "true" breeder. If true is the right word. Who's doing it right and how they are doing there work.

I worked with a AKC GSD breeder. She is the breeder my grandma got her GSD from. What she does is vastly different from what i've seen BYB doing. And she has a kennel license.

Since in CA it is techincally illegal to breed a dog more then 1 time a year and to breed without a license.

I don't know about your state though.

I'd post this question again in CHOOSEING THE RIGHT DOG. I bet you'll get more hints and help from people who know more about breeders and dogs then me.

Good luck.
Shiver Me- Timbers- "Charlie"

My Little Dog, a- heartbeat at my- feet.<3
Barked: Fri Mar 15, '13 1:45pm PST 
I've got several things I've seen on various other forums, mostly GSD forums, so here they are below.

Should I Breed Flowchart

Ask them questions:
What makes their dog breed worthy?
Why are they breeding them? Profit? Cute puppies? To better the breed?
Have they been health tested? Health problems can crop up in the next generations.
Do they have a trackable pedigree?
Can they give a health guarantee?
Can they provide a home for ALL the puppies until they find homes, or if their new owners for some reason cannot keep them?
Can they provide lifetime support?
Do they know the basics of a heat cycle, or how to time matings?
Do they know how the two breeding dogs could compliment one another's genetic traits?
Are they capable of doing the job they were bred to do?
Are they aware of the costs? Emergency costs during pregnancy or labor, vaccinations, dewormings and microchips for puppies, regular vet check ups during pregnancy for the dam, food for the weaned puppies and for the parents, costs of cleanup and care while they're in their care..
Are they aware of the potential things that could go wrong for dam and puppies?
Do they know how long a gestation period is?
Do they have a breeder/breed mentor?

You can always use my family member as an example too. They were not responsible in keeping their two Rottweilers separate during their females heat. They didn't WANT to breed her, but didn't really care if she got pregnant either, which, at eight years old is pretty old to be bred, not to mention that the littermates of the dam had all been put to sleep or passed away by the age of eight due to health problems and/or hip problems. So their female got pregnant. She went into labor(unexpectedly because the idiots didn't figure out how long a gestation period is for a female dog). She had six puppies. Four were stillborn. They never breathed oxygen into their lungs after birth, and even upon trying to get them breathing, did not. One was alive and doing well. They assumed after the five, that mama was done having puppies. Even had a vet look at her and he said the same thing(ultrasounds or xrays are really the only way to tell - a Vet just feeling the dogs stomach isn't going to tell). Two days later, she went outside for a pee break in -30C weather, where she dropped her sixth puppy. This puppy had to be resuscitated and was immediately rejected by her mother. For two days, this puppy was bottle fed, but was not eating properly and eventually, passed in their arms. They resuscitated her again. Ten times, on the way to the emergency Vet. Upon getting there, they learned she had acquired aspiration pneumonia and by having lacked oxygen to her brain so much during that time to the Vet, the verdict was not good. This puppy had a very, very slim chance at life, and if she did live, would have likely had brain damage as a result. They made the decision to have her humanely euthanized. Only one puppy survived out of six. They were devastated, completely heartbroken. But they learned their lesson. All at the expense of these dogs and their health and lives. The dam was put to sleep humanely at nine years old because of her hips and her deteriorated health.


Do you even- lift?
Barked: Fri Mar 15, '13 2:51pm PST 
The most effective method to convince people like that not to breed is by telling them about the possible repercussions to their bank account. For starters, health testing is of paramount importance for both parents (and preferably was done on the grandparents, great grandparents, ect., but that doesn't sound like the case here) and can get expensive. Necessary tests vary depending on breed, but there are usually at least three or four. "My vet said they're healthy" is not a health test, as genetic problems can show up at any point in life or both parents could be recessive carriers, meaning statistically 25% of their puppies would be affected. Like the chart Charlie posted says, the tests need to be evaluated by the proper association, such as the OFA, which means additional fees.

As was being discussed on another thread, just because puppies are being sold as "just pets" doesn't mean they don't deserve to be healthy. It's irresponsible and immoral to breed puppies with preventable genetic problems that will cause the buyers expense and heartbreak down the road.

Ideally, the dogs should also be shown, worked, and otherwise judged by outside sources to be good examples of their breed, both physically and in temperament. This also costs a good chunk of money, but most BYBs don't see the point when they're breeding "just pets", so I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening.

Then there are the costs of caring for the pregnant mother, buying supplies for caring for the litter, and costs of caring for the puppies when they're born. And that's if nothing goes wrong during the pregnancy and birthing, requiring expensive vet care, and possibly causing the death of the mother and/or puppies.

Here's a breakdown of the possible costs involved in breeding responsibly: Cost to Breed and Raise a Litter

Good luck!

Edited by author Fri Mar 15, '13 2:58pm PST


Design jewelry,- not dogs!!!
Barked: Fri Mar 15, '13 3:20pm PST 
Here's Jethro's real life story: After showing and doing all testing, approximately $5000, (which, I know, they WON'T do, but I did), I bred Lola, my Frenchie. I used my own Champion male so I didn't have a stud fee, BUT I did have $300 for three progesterone tests to find the right time to breed her.
At 6 weeks we did an ultrasound to check pregnancy/puppies $150. Lola had a c-section, $1500, and three puppies. Within the first 24 hours one died from injury when she picked him up and one died from unknown causes. Lola became deathly ill due to complications from the surgery and spent three days at the vets in intensive care, $2500, had to have meds and vet visits for another three weeks, about $500, and was unable to care for the puppy at all.
The remaining pup was hand raised, meaning bottle feeding every two hours around the clock for the first three weeks. Puppy formula is about $8 per can and he drank about 8 cans of it in that time. He also got pneumonia from aspirating the milk TWICE, and that was about $250 more in vet care.
Finally, at about 10 weeks of age I knew he would survive, but of course, after doing all that there was no way, no how I could sell him. Meanwhile, he had the usual vet fees for shots, worming,etc, about $200 total.
Sooo, I ended up with ONE puppy that cost me approximately $4500, and a female that can't be bred again due to continuing health issues from the surgery/illness, after already spending the $5000 on showing and testing her.
I didn't even assign a dollar amount for my time spent raising Jethro round the clock and the work missed due to caring for him... it was too scary!!!
Jewel, PCD

8.6lbs of fury- in a bow!
Barked: Fri Mar 15, '13 3:21pm PST 
Try this - http://www.katewerk.com/studhell.html

Edited by author Fri Mar 15, '13 3:24pm PST

Toto, CD, RN, CGC

We don't do- doodles!!!
Barked: Fri Mar 15, '13 3:33pm PST 
Jewel, OMD, that is soooo funny!!!!! I almost choked on my steak!!
Jewel, PCD

8.6lbs of fury- in a bow!
Barked: Fri Mar 15, '13 3:41pm PST 
Be careful Toto!! We can't lose you! laugh out loud

Barked: Fri Mar 15, '13 3:58pm PST 
Ask questions, in a non-judgmental way. If you don't think you can do that, find somebody who can.


you: Why do you want to breed?
them: I'd really like to get into breeding and learn all about it?
you: hmm, my friend knows [insert reputable breeder] and they also breed your breed? I bet they'd love to talk with you about breeding, here's their contact info.

you: why do you want to breed?
them: I just love my dogs so much I know they'd make great, cute puppies
you: hmm, they are great dogs, aren't they? It would be pretty expensive to have lots of dogs though, have you thought of finding homes for the puppies before they're born?
them: tons of people want puppies!
you: that's true, but there are even more puppies out there than people who want them, already. Since you know dogs though, what about volunteering at a shelter? that way you could help people pick out puppies and still connect great people and great puppies, and you'd be saving lives, too!

you: why do you want to breed?
them: I need some money.
you: hmm. I totally get that, can I help you find a job/think of another plan? Even if everything goes smoothly caring for a litter of puppies is expensive, and there is no guarantee they'll all find homes. Then you'll end up with another dog which = more cost. And if anything goes wrong, it could cost thousands of dollars.

I think it will probably go better if you can ask them questions and really listen. Don't overwhelm them with facts. Ask them open ended questions and get them to talk themselves out of breeding. If you are against all breeding, and they know this, find somebody else to have this conversation because they'll likely think you are just pushing your agenda.

Good luck!

It ain't over- till the fat- kitty sings
Barked: Fri Mar 15, '13 5:30pm PST 
They might be rather simple minded people, I would say really push the expense thing and how they'll pay a hootie of alot more out than they can forseeably make on the puppies. Tell them they probably won't even break even...Good luck, I hope they change their minds
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