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The responsibilities of a stud owner...

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Trigger

*Blackdog*
 
 
Barked: Thu Jun 30, '11 11:21am PST 
I consider myself young enough to not quite know it all lol

I consider myself very knowledgeable when it comes to my particular breeds of interest and what it takes to make them happy.

My boys are extremely happy, healthy, and well cared for.

That however does NOT necessarily make me breeder material.

I feel like I have so much to learn in regards to the avenue of having Hoyt as a potential stud dog someday.

He is from phenomenal and very well respected working lines.

He is being well trained and socialized. Loves everyone and doesn't have a mean bone in his body.

He has an exceptional nose and prey drive. Will be hunting this fall and hopefully competing in FT's and possibly a BDC or two for fun.

He's in solid body condition, perfectly proportionate for a healthy working Labrador.

At two we absolutely plan to have hips, eyes and EIC status confirmed.

Should all that fall together well...he performs well. Is stellar healthy. Keeps his sweet and stable minded but full of vim and vinegar personality...then what??


We've already been approached by so many people telling us they want h'm to breed to their female because (squealy voice) "he's soooo cute!" or " wow look at him charge through those cattails."

No one has asked about his health or accomplishments, likewise no one thinks to offer up any similar info about their females. Its so disheartening!

I have a lot of confidence in what we're going to be able to do with him but then what? Its so daunting to think about finding females on that same level. His breeder said once we start getting him to trials we'll meet more reputable interested parties but again, then what? How do we go about checking their health clearances? What other considerations should be taken into account? Do studs have contracts too as far as the details of the puppies or would that be too much to ask? (I'm concerned about them all going to appropriate working forever homes).

You hear so much about the responsibilities of breeding female owners, but what about the males?

I'd like to get a jump on this now so I have a good grasp of it all should we someday get to the point of making such decisions.

Much thanks!
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Adam

Vaccine free- -Disease free- goes pawinpaw
 
 
Barked: Thu Jun 30, '11 12:04pm PST 
If all genetic clearances and he perform well and has a fine temperament, I'd ask myself "why do I want to breed more black labs into the world?" I mean there are thousands that are just as well as Hoyt in health, appearance, performance.. to me there has to be something more, and you ask "then what".. As someone who doesn't breed and has alot of different opinions than you, if you wanted to hear a diff pov, the "Then what" should be "does my dog have something that will without a doubt benefit labs that half of them don't already have that are being bred?" Keeping in mind the black lab are the greatest in shelters even over pit bulls (so statistics say....but we all know shelters will say labmix and not pit bull...but still) ETA: I don't see any difference in responsibility of male or female but maybe people tend to blame female owners more since they're the ones with the oops puppies we see??

Edited by author Thu Jun 30, '11 12:06pm PST

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Pepper

Got food? I- can be bought ya- know....
 
 
Barked: Thu Jun 30, '11 12:21pm PST 
I don't put it all on the owners of females...

Spay & nueter! Zero population growth is the only way to empty shelters and find every dog a good home.
One of your dogs is a rescue. All (3) of mine are rescues. Have you ever thought about where he might be if not for the rescue & you?

Cute and a good game dog is still not enough reason to breed.
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Trigger

*Blackdog*
 
 
Barked: Thu Jun 30, '11 12:35pm PST 
Most Labs are not bred to the caliber Hoyt is.

I'm not talking being able to look pretty in a show ring but serious working talent with generation after generation to back up his genetics.

Why would I consider breeding? Because the world DOES need better bred Labradors in the gene pool. Quantity does NOT equal quality. Just because there are many poorly bred throw away Labs in the world doesn't negate the need for SOLID breeders. In fact I think it elevates it to a level of extreme caution and care.

I didn't ask to be personally scrutinized but since you asked, I know the breed inside and out. Have fostered for and owned the bottom of the barrel. Have hunted behind and owned some of the best of the best. I have 48 acres of prime hunting land complete with three ponds and adore the same sport they live for. I am
educated and financially stable. IF I ever got to a point where I'd
feel savvy enough to pull the trigger...my question to you would be what would disqualify me personally from being an individual who could truly better future generations???
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Henry

1192817
 
 
Barked: Thu Jun 30, '11 12:40pm PST 
Definitely ask yourself what does your dog have to offer the breed that is going to improve it? Is he better than his sire or siblings? Does he really look correct for his breed? I know he is field bred, but he should still have correct lab breed type. Breeding without regard for type is just as wrong as breeding without regard for health/performance/personality.

I had an intact male dog that was shown, did performance and had a fabulous personality, passed ofa, baer, cerf. He was bred to the 9's (sire a conformation champion in five countries, mother a conformation champion, master hunter, all tracking titles, obedience titles, just a top performance bitch). My dog had siblings that were top dogs in the breed as specials. I was contacted many times by people with top winning bitches asking to breed to him and I said no. Frankly I didn't want the responsiblity of puppies in this world. And his siblings are nicer and his dad is nicer and both have frozen semen (so will be available long term). When people asked me I just refered them to a sibling or his sire. Its not about making money.

In addition, are you willing to take responsibility for every single puppy for the remainder of its life? A responsible breeder is. My two current dogs the previous owner abandonded them at age 9 & 10. The breeder of one of them (who is extremely responsible) took him back, and even took the other because they were buddies. It cost several thousand dollars to ship the dogs back across country to the breeder and then do several thousand in needed surgery on them. They probably put out $4-5 thousand in taking back this dog. But they will take back any dog at any time for any reason (its in the contract the dog has to come back). IMHO the owner of the both the male and female has this responsiblity. Are you prepared to do this?
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Trigger

*Blackdog*
 
 
Barked: Thu Jun 30, '11 12:42pm PST 
Three of my dogs are rescues Pepper.

And I've volunteered at local shelters as well as with private rescues for the last 15 years.

You cannot say spay and neuter all or the domesticated canine would become extinct.

I realize that's what PETA and its supporters are after but not me.
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Trigger

*Blackdog*
 
 
Barked: Thu Jun 30, '11 12:49pm PST 
Henry, to correct he is not field bred. Nor is he exclusively bench bred. If you'd like me explain why I'll be happy to but to most the answer is quite obvious.

And I think I already answered your question of how I'd feel about the responsibility over any pups he sired in my original post. That would obviously apply to the duration of their lives.
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Squ'mey

too old to eat- any more KD
 
 
Barked: Thu Jun 30, '11 12:50pm PST 
Trigger is not some Joe-Schmoe looking to breed indiscriminately, or to have cute puppies. He is looking to better the breed & is looking far enough into the future to have the knowledge he'll need to make informed decisions. Maybe your breeder could be your mentor? I know you live in the boonies, but you could liase online & pick his brain.
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Harlow

st. francis of- asses
 
 
Barked: Thu Jun 30, '11 12:58pm PST 
Trigger, I think you would be a great breeder! You know your breed better than most, you know what makes a better dog, you are well educated in the health issues of your breed and you have an up and coming male pup that may just be THE one!!! As someone else said, you need a mentor along the way, possibly Hoyt's breeder. Then once he has been field tested, has all his health clearances and you feel by using him as a stud with a reputable bitch that he would better the breed, why not? This breed is where your passion lies!!
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Dr. Watson

Not a wiener- dawg!
 
 
Barked: Thu Jun 30, '11 12:59pm PST 
Squ'mey, great idea to have a mentor. If Trigger wants to better the breed, or at least maintain the great characteristics of her Lab, I see nothing wrong with her doing this in a very responsible way. If Hoyt passes all his clearances, this is very responsible, and he should be bred to a bitch with the same, preferably to a bitch whose owner has bred excellent litters before and taken care that puppies are placed well. Someone who works in rescue, as Trigger has, and someone who is responsible for the life of his/her dogs. Correct me if I'm wrong, Trigger, but isn't Hoyt a pointing Lab?
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