What do you think about having a license to breed?

This is a forum to discuss legislation and legal matters pertaining to the rights and welfare of dogs. Please remember to counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice and responses.

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Living life one- treat at a time!-
Barked: Mon Sep 28, '09 1:54pm PST 
I know there is a lot of talk in these forums about responsible breeders and most people support breeding when it is done responsibly. The thing is how do you really know they are responsible breeders? Sometimes it is hard to tell. Has anyone ever heard of any type of licensure to be able to breed? The type of license I am thinking of would be one where you would take some sort of classes to learn about responsible breeding and the license would only apply to one breed of dog not several. Also mandatory inspections by USDA of the home where the breeding is occuring.

Reason I thought of this is because my boyfriends parents own an exotic animal refuge and they have licenses for every type of animal they own they also get inspected twice a year by USDA at random and have a vet regularly visit to issue health certificates.

If we made responsible breeders get licensed and it could be controlled and regulated don't you guys think this would help control the issue of puppy mills and BYB? Also make it illegal to buy puppies from anyone who is not licensed? I don't know, what do you guys think? I just can't believe I have never heard of this idea before, and maybe there are some places where this exsist and I am just not aware.

Let me know what you guys thinks!
Addy, CGC

Let's go for a- walk!
Barked: Mon Sep 28, '09 2:13pm PST 
The USDA does license dog breeders--and their standards are livestock standards, virtually mandating that dogs be treated like battery hens, raised in factory farm conditions.

The USDA is concerned primarily about producing animals for human consumption, not human companionship. Also, to the extent that their regs would at least mandate clean conditions--the USDA, with its primary concern being animals who will enter the food chain, do not inspect puppy mills (because that is what USDA-licensed facilities are) anywhere near enough to ensure that they are even clean.

More local efforts to license dog breeders also nearly always wind up favoring puppy millers. This is because they proceed from the assumption that dog breeding is a business and that the breeding dogs are livestock, whereas responsible breeds are not "in business," lose money nearly every year on their expensive hobby, and could not afford to create the antiseptic, factory-farm conditions that the regulations require even if they wanted to--which they do not, because their dogs are family pets first, and the puppies, when they breed, are nearly always born in the breeder's own bedroom.

So, no, I would not support any licensing scheme for breeders that I have ever heard proposed, and I'm extremely skeptical of the ability to write a licensing scheme that would actually favor responsible breeders rather than shutting them down and favoring the puppy millers.
Figaro SDIT

Can't read my,- can't read my- poodle face
Barked: Mon Sep 28, '09 2:47pm PST 
applause Abby! All the laws I see want things that just aren't possible to have an raise puppies in a home. I saw things like "no porous surfaces or toys."
So not letting the dogs around carpet or giving them stuffies. All the laws I've seen seem to encourage locking dogs up and not interacting with them.


All that lives- is holy.
Barked: Mon Sep 28, '09 2:59pm PST 
That's touchy, really.
In Georgia, anyone who produces more than one litter per female per year or who produces more than thirty animals per year is considered a breeder and must have a liscense. I don't know how well it's enforced, though.

The thing is, no matter what we all think about breeding standards, responsible breeding, whatever, these are our morals, our principles. We live in a country where hundreds of thousands of animals are bred in factory farm conditions and die in slaughterhouses every day. It is hypocritical to think of the dogs' welfare without thinking of their welfare, as well- according to my morality, anyway.

Many of these laws sound good on paper. Random inspections at any time, dogs' living quarters must be so many square feet and must be clean at all times.

At seven in the morning, a responsible breeder could be rousted from bed in their own home and have their dogs confiscated because they were crate training some show hopefuls and/or their puppy pen was soiled from the night before.

Some people wish to breed dogs with stellar conformation and don't care as much about working instinct. Some people care only about working instinct and don't care about conformation and typiness, so long as the dog is functional and healthy. Which breeder is right and wrong? Or are they both right? That's where the moral ambiguity comes in.

And lastly, as much as I hate to see poorly bred dogs suffer and die, as much as I hate to see innocent people buy dogs that are unhealthy and unstable, as long as dogs are reasonably well cared for, I don't think it's my place to tell people what to do with their own animals. That's just my two cents.

ETA: You cannot legislate ethics and you cannot legislate quality of life.

Edited by author Mon Sep 28, '09 3:00pm PST


Living life one- treat at a time!-
Barked: Mon Sep 28, '09 3:11pm PST 

Never thought of it from that standpoint, that USDA would regulate as livestock, which in that case would not warrant the best living conditions considering how our livestock is treated in factory farms and etc. I guess the usual USDA inspector that comes to my boyfriends' parents house is a little tougher than most. He is very paticular on how big the habitats are for each animal and that they are being maintained properly.
Addy, CGC

Let's go for a- walk!
Barked: Mon Sep 28, '09 4:30pm PST 
Lucy, how would that tough USDA inspector react if the animals were being housed and raised inside the home--which is what's appropriate for dogs or cats intended to be household pets?

Which is to say, even the USDA inspectors who focus on exotics, would not necessarily be good inspectors for people responsibly breeding dogs or (domestic) cats.
CH ChekrdFlags Vegas GoGo Girl

All Pyr! From- pasture to show- ring!
Barked: Mon Sep 28, '09 4:53pm PST 
Great posts Addy!way to go

Izzat chicken?
Barked: Wed Sep 30, '09 5:52am PST 
What we would need isn't a federal or state-level liscensing program, but a program that works from a 501c(3) or something like that (If the ASPCA didn't already have so much on their plate, I would give it to them), that's staffed by people who understand how dog-breeding is different from maintaining livestock. It wouldn't have weight of law, but it would give people something to look for to know where to go.

Fritz, cats are- fun when they- run
Barked: Wed Sep 30, '09 9:57am PST 
I don’t care for government regulation but something has to be done.

AHHHHH a person I work with decided to breed their grandson’s boxer. Another person I work with just happens to have an unfixed male boxer. I want to tear my hair out over this mess. I have tentatively mentioned some of what I have learned about decent breeders, but can’t really tear into the people involved…. Not if I want to keep working to support the pack.

I was feeling so guilty thinking about purchasing a husky puppy in a few years. After looking into all this, I almost feel a responsibility to find a good breeder and support them.

BOL, good thing I have a few years, it takes work and study to even identify a decent breeder and the first one I found wasn’t. (I was fooled because they have a good looking web site that talks about improving their breed etc. They just don’t walk the talk :-( )

Guide dogs, the- ones others- emulate
Barked: Wed Sep 30, '09 10:30am PST 
Ummmmm............are you asking about children.....or dogs?

On the serious side, all a licensing protocol would do is penalize those who are already doing it correctly while having minimal impact on those who are not. It would be no different than MSN or BSL.....well intentioned but unworkable in the real world.
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