Postings by Connor

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Behavior & Training > Rough-housing all the time and over-the-top

Connor

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Barked: Thu Dec 6, '12 9:21pm PST 
That's possible, though I have reason to believe there is a more direct approach. Because when they are outside, they are chill. And can chill for a long time. Able to do activities peacefully together without wrestling whether tired or not. Thing is, once inside, then WOAH time to wrestle. EVEN IF they are dead tired already or were when outside. In the past, I let them wrestle for hours. And they just kept going. They essentially will wrestle until they die of exhaustion. So it seems like they associated specifically indoor time with absolute wrestle time, no matter how exhausted.
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» There has since been 3 posts. Last posting by Seela, Dec 8 11:58 pm

Behavior & Training > Rough-housing all the time and over-the-top
Connor

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Barked: Wed Dec 5, '12 3:08pm PST 
That makes sense. Thanks.

Here's the plan I have in mind then. Let me know if you think it will work.

Av and Connor will be separated 90% of the time for the next month. I'll bond with each separately playing tug-o-war, ball launching, trick training, tag, and walks. When they do have time together, it will only be 5 minutes when they're both tired right after romps and games. They can still see each other. But separated with a gate. Over the course of a month, I'll slowly increase the short calm times they spend together.

Hope the plan works. What do you think? What other ways to bond?
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» There has since been 5 posts. Last posting by Seela, Dec 8 11:58 pm


Behavior & Training > Rough-housing all the time and over-the-top

Connor

Face Taster
 
 
Barked: Wed Dec 5, '12 1:56am PST 
Update #2:

Peanut butter kongs: They each get one. But Connor leaves his own and rushes to fight over Avalon's. Ends up creating more excitement. Same issue when I toss a ball. When I toss two, Connor always goes for the one Av is chasing. Excitement and more wrestling ensues.

I have a pen for Connor. When he starts physically biting on neck or ears, I placed him back for 5 minutes. But after bringing him out to play, they're wrestling again. Connor bites again, I put him back. Cycle repeats. This ends up with Connor being in the pen for the majority of the day.

I tried combining all this with down stays. So far there's no fruit yet. The two go right back to wrestling a few seconds after reward.

After their romps, they rest for about 10 minutes indoors. Then they wake up and start wrestling again. Doesn't look like more exercise will change the habit.

I've been trying redirecting their wrestling to tug-o-war with rope toys too. It generally keeps them from biting, but I'm thinking to create a new game for them that doesn't promote wrestling and fighting all-in-all. Since tug-o-war doesn't seem to be helping the wrestling cause, just keeping it up.

They're still getting amped up and Connor's angry within 5 minutes of fighting. Connor really tears at the ears. Avalon's 100% easygoing and bulletproof. He won't care crap whether Connor is actually angry or fighting. Only watching for Avalon's yelps isn't going to cut it before the damage is done. Av will probably never yelp in his entire life.

Main issue I want to get rid of is the neck and ear biting from Connor. And a lot more down time than there is now.

Connor also seems to understand that I don't want him biting. Whenever he thinks I'm not looking, he takes a rush at Avalon's neck or ears. I can't keep my eye on them 24/7 like this.

So far that I'm seeing, the only way is to design a new game for them to play together that won't promote wrestling. All of your suggestions were great. But still no fruit yet. Connor finds ways around them. Seems that anything Avalon is doing, Connor needs to join in on.
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» There has since been 7 posts. Last posting by Seela, Dec 8 11:58 pm


Behavior & Training > Rough-housing all the time and over-the-top

Connor

Face Taster
 
 
Barked: Thu Nov 29, '12 6:38pm PST 
Sorry Squmey. I only refer to it as fight on the forum. For need of a shorter word. I completely understand it's only play. No worries on that. smile

My boundary is when Connor starts clamping down harder on the flesh. Ears and Neck.

Thanks for the tips Squmey. How do you suggest to make rules for starting and finishing the wrestle?
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» There has since been 15 posts. Last posting by Seela, Dec 8 11:58 pm


Behavior & Training > Rough-housing all the time and over-the-top

Connor

Face Taster
 
 
Barked: Thu Nov 29, '12 5:22pm PST 
Updates:

Telling them "sit" or "down" in mid-fight: They both listen well, though it takes Connor a little longer. But right after the "training session" they rush into the fight again. I tell them to "sit" or "down" again, for an extended time. They both listen. But again, after they receive their treats, they rush in to fight again.

Tossing them treats during resting period: The problem is that this is a very hard one to catch and reinforce, because they will fight continuously for up to an hour before resting for a couple minutes. Which they recover from in 2 minutes. They appreciated the treats, but the wrestling continues just as it was before.

Hiding a toy: I stuffed it with treats. They both didn't care for it at all. Wrestling seems a higher reward. It's really too bad.

Today, I tried a different tactic. Might be offensive. When the play became too rough, I physically seperated them. Grabbed Connor by the collar and said STOP. I scolded both. Avalon's sensitive to scolding so doesn't need the forced grabbing. Berated both of them pretty harshly for a minute. Av walked off and Connor rolled over and tried to kiss up to me. They stopped wrestling for about 20 minutes, which is the longest yet. I can't say if this is the best way to deal with the issue forever.

Part of my worry is that Connor needs a chance to learn household manners. If he's fighting with Avalon all the time, the ability to "stay calm indoors" is only when I separate Connor into a closed room for a training session. The dream is to have two calm dogs strolling freely around the house for at least 40% of indoor time. Right now, this does not happen at all.
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» There has since been 17 posts. Last posting by Seela, Dec 8 11:58 pm

Behavior & Training > Rough-housing all the time and over-the-top
Connor

Face Taster
 
 
Barked: Thu Nov 29, '12 2:01pm PST 
Kali: Let's see how they do with that today. I'm betting Connor is gonna be willing to play hide the toy. Knowing Av, he might rather invite Connor to wrestle. Then both forget about the toy hiding. laugh out loud But I'll see when I get back.

Kodiak: My neighborhood has a lot of coyotes. I'm fearful letting them outside to play unsupervised. More than a few large dogs have been killed by coyotes where we live. frown A golden and a pointer. Connor and Av will be tougher, but I'd avoid taking the risk.

Smokey: It can very well be extended, though not enough to help them calm down inside. These GSDs have boundless energy. I'm thinking slowly training them to chill out is still the solution. Just not sure on the best way to do it.

Squmey: Yep, Connor's neutered. So, short training sessions placed randomly between wrestling?

Czarka: Yeah, I hope to keep down the wrestling indoors. I'm getting the feel that it's a slow process. Outdoors, they can wrestle to their hearts content.

Any more tips on calming down the indoor wrestling long-term? Mentioned above, there are lots of coyotes in my neighborhood. Pretty dangerous letting them in the yard to wrestle for hours unsupervised around here. Since I can't always be standing in the yard watching them.
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» There has since been 19 posts. Last posting by Seela, Dec 8 11:58 pm


Behavior & Training > Rough-housing all the time and over-the-top

Connor

Face Taster
 
 
Barked: Thu Nov 29, '12 12:30am PST 
Thanks. smile I'd love if they could have more calm time together, even besides having guests. It's too bad they do more than just face biting. More than a few ornaments have been broken with two large dogs exploding indoors. Some cute face biting sounds like a dream.
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» There has since been 25 posts. Last posting by Seela, Dec 8 11:58 pm


Behavior & Training > Rough-housing all the time and over-the-top

Connor

Face Taster
 
 
Barked: Wed Nov 28, '12 11:26pm PST 
Good day guys. I think this is my first post on the forum. Title of the thread is my general concern.

My fam adopted Connor a month back. He's a year and a half year old excitable GSD. Avalon's my 4 and a half year old big guy. They seem to feel the need to rough-house 90% of their free home time with each other. The other 10%, they're resting between fights or reloading their energy with food and water. Avalon was usually the one that invites to play in the first couple weeks, and Connor's very willing to accept. In the past week, their rough-housing has become more extreme, mainly due to Connor. His temper has been rising quickly whenever they rough-house and his bites become more vicious, he stiffens up, he starts to snarl intensely. Most recently he gets to this state within 5 minutes. Too over-the-top for my liking, though Avalon still finds it all super fun.

I've been trying to split it up by yelling "HEY!" loudly and clapping. Weird way, but it's my emergency recall in any case. Avalon switches his focus on me no prob, but Connor only does 2 out of 5 times. All his body, mind, and soul is on Avalon.

I've also just tried stopping the rough-housing before Connor gets to this fury state and bring him outside to do other things and burn off some of his energy.

My overall goal, I'd like them to be able to hang out quietly more often. It's like whenever they have free-time in the house, they think it's an obligation to rough-house and fight for the rest of the day. They love each other a ton already, showing their affection when they're resting between fights. But when the resting love time is over, back to fighting for the next 2 hours.

Avalon's problem is he thinks that dogs have to fight when they meet. This is fine. But he imposes this on Connor too, even though they live together, which is the base of the problem. Avalon's mellow enough to think it's always all good fun, but Connor does not always agree. There's also no way to get the two to do any other activity with me in the house unless I separate them. Because all they want to do is rough-house together.

For exercise, I'm a hiking addict. Weekday mornings, an hour walk around the neighborhood and half an hour of free romp. Weekday afternoons, sometimes a hike, sometimes just the walk and romp. Weekends, intensive hiking in the early mornings. The dogs do very well outdoors. But once in the house it's like BAM time to rough and tumble for the rest of the day.
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» There has since been 27 posts. Last posting by Seela, Dec 8 11:58 pm

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