GO!

ADA require paperwork!!

The Service and Therapy Dog forum is for all service and therapy dogs regardless of whether or not their status is legally defined by federal or state law, how they are trained, or whether or not they are "certified." Posts questioning or disputing a person's need for a service or therapy dog, the validity of a person's service or therapy dog, or the dog's ability to do the work of a service or therapy dog are not permitted in this forum. Please keep discussions fun, friendly, and helpful at all times.

  
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Sam

My Sammi
 
 
Barked: Mon Sep 30, '13 11:47am PST 
Nova, I'm not questioning your patriotism at all! I'm a man, and I think I can sypathize with a woman concerning child birth, but I can't empathize with her because I've never experienced childbirth. That's the context I was speaking from. And I'm not asking the gov't to reinvent the wheel by wondering why they can't use a good old American outfit's guidance.

And Cooper, our VA improperly used the direction outlined in a notice of rule from the DOJ, signed by Eric Holder in 2010, to impliment the restrictions on SD's at our facility. As it turns out, we were notified of yesterday, (I was at work until 10pm so I didn't get the message until long after my rants!!!), after much protest from local veterans, they corrected themselves, after it was slammed down their throats, that Title 40 of the US Code was the guidance they were required to follow. the restrictions they "misunderstood" don't deal with access, they deal with what type of service dogs the VA will PAY for; at least while a three year study is ongoing observing the efficacy of psychiatric SD's. So today as many of our group as is available will be spending time visiting the VA with our SD's in celebration...peacefully, and respectfully of course! (In the message we recieved, they stated that they had recieved a "change" dated Aug, 2013...it was actually NOT a change, and it was 2012 that the information they used from the Federal Register you quoted was published...
happy dance
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Cooper

microscopic mutt
 
 
Barked: Mon Sep 30, '13 2:02pm PST 
Hey Sam! So thrilled to hear that your VA finally got its act together. I'm just sorry that you vets had to work so hard for your rights. What I posted seemed straightforward enough to me; it's kind of mind-boggling to me that a bunch of supposedly adult humans would misunderstand it.

Anyway, I hope you're enjoying your celebration today!

dancing wishes party cheer
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Nova

1184372
 
 
Barked: Mon Sep 30, '13 5:51pm PST 
The reason we can't use a "good old American outfit's guidance" is because there are no good old American outfits that don't use ADI. For example, VetDogs, a sister organization of the Guide Dog Foundation that provides (well-trained) SDs to vets free-of-charge, is affiliated with ADI. All quality programs in the US are either affiliated with ADI or trying to replicate ADI's process themselves.

So you could certainly go to GDF/VetDogs in Smithtown, NY for guidance. They would refer you to ADI. You could go to a non-ADI affiliate. They would tell you they're trying to be as effective as ADI. The only groups that aren't doing this are the ones that are producing very poorly-trained SDs.

Anyhow, glad you can take your SD with you now.
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Sam

My Sammi
 
 
Barked: Mon Sep 30, '13 6:20pm PST 
Gosh, Nova, I guess we should give up then since the ADI seems to be the end-all-be-all and us silly Americans aren't capable of origional thought shrug

Kidding!
big laugh We are, as Americans, capable of a great deal, but our gov't doesn't seem to be capable of anything, at this point!

Thanks for the well wishes, Nova! Happy my Sam gets to be my partner in healing again at the VA! applause
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Harley, SD,- CGC, TDI

Super Service- Boy!
 
 
Barked: Mon Sep 30, '13 6:29pm PST 
I know a couple programs, albeit small ones, that are quite legit and have no desire to be a part of or replicate ADI. Don't paint all programs with the same broad brush.
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Sam

My Sammi
 
 
Barked: Tue Oct 1, '13 9:42am PST 
Amen Harley!wave
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Nova

1184372
 
 
Barked: Tue Oct 1, '13 7:33pm PST 
But there's no denying that ADI has the only solid scaled-up standardization.

Like I said earlier, I'm completely fine with using another model, but there has to be some sort of minimum standard for SDs to be considered SDs. Somebody wants to come up with something else? Fine. But we absolutely should not discount the ADI model simply because it's international...I really don't buy that argument.

But, like Sam mentioned, anything involving the government isn't going to happen anytime soon! I do believe dogs, of any training, certification, or standardization, could run this country better then the current folks smile
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SIR AILBE,- Service Dog

Born To Serve- The Damsel In- Distress
 
 
Barked: Wed Oct 2, '13 6:53am PST 
The ADA doesn't cover complaints filed for Federal Bldgs. Federal Bldgs are covered by the US GSA -- Subchapter C -- Real Property

http://www.gsa.gov/portal/ext/public/site/FMR/file/Part1 02-_74.html/category/21859 (close up any gaps if it doesn't work)

Subchapter C / Part 102-74.425

Dogs and Other Animals

�102-74.425—What is the policy concerning dogs and other animals on Federal property?

No person may bring dogs or other animals on Federal property for other than official purposes. However, a disabled person may bring a seeing-eye dog, a guide dog, or other animal assisting or being trained to assist that individual.

102-74.450 — What are the penalties for violating any rule or regulation in this subpart?

A person found guilty of violating any rule or regulation in this subpart while on any property under the charge and control of GSA shall be fined under title 18 of the United States Code, imprisoned for not more than 30 days, or both.

I've been in contact with the Dept of Veterans Affairs in Washington DC who oversee the Veterans Service Dog Act Teams. They said that they can't enforce a ban because they'll be denying disability laws of Section 508 of the Rehab Act which overseas all VA Hospitals.

My older service dog was ADI trained, but not ADI certified. His "non" ADI certification came from another program. This program did go for ADI accredidation, but their Outreach Program to certify teams had to be stopped. So, they backed out of the process. The DAV endorses them... I went thru Voc Rehab for my Service Dog team 10 yrs ago... They grandfathered him as a Veterans Service Dog team -- They've already approved of Ailbe (I have a letter granting Ailbe that status from the Dept of Veterans Affairs) of taking the same certification.

As the way the new VA Act stands it will allow only 100 teams a year to be approved in Washington... They leaves thousands of Vets out of having a service dog (The VA doesn't pay for them either). So, they have relaxed their rulings on this and are allowing only teams that are well trained (proof required -- I already have mine done). They're finding out that its in violation of Section 508 of the Rehab Act...

So, make sure you give correct information about Veterans Service Dog teams. The VA has been contacting with me for years now on what a Veteran teamed with a service dog is all about.

Ailbe
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Sam

My Sammi
 
 
Barked: Wed Oct 9, '13 6:27pm PST 
Nova, you're right on the money about that!!! I have a Shih Tzu who's dumber than a box of rocks, but could think circles around most of the people inside the beltway!!!
big laugh
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Link

Hero of Hyrule
 
 
Barked: Wed Oct 9, '13 7:50pm PST 
"Like I said earlier, I'm completely fine with using another model, but there has to be some sort of minimum standard for SDs to be considered SDs."

"(c)(2) Exceptions. A public accommodation may ask an individual with a disability to remove a service animal from the premises if:
(i) The animal is out of control and the animal´s handler does not take effective action to control it; or
(ii) The animal is not housebroken."
http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/titleIII_2010/titleIII_20 10_regulations.htm

Why is this not enough? All issues I have seen with fakers could have EASILY been handled if the store owner or manager was EDUCATED about the actual law, and kicked out a misbehaving dog.

Why do we need lengthy descriptions and regulations? If the dog is well behaved, calm, and fits the ADA's definition of a service animal why isn't that enough? Some people in rural communities don't need a dog that has been trained to ride a bus, maneuver an escalator, or really do anything more than be calm and level headed. Like it or not, some dogs don't have to be put through an extensive program to be bomb-proof and well-behaved. The ADA takes into consideration people who may not have the funds or access to get a dog from a program, or who *gasp* maybe just don't want to!

Again, education is the problem here, NOT the law!
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