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Acidic vs. Alkaline

This is a dedicated place for all of your questions and answers about Raw Diets. There are also some really cool groups like "Raw Fed" on the topic you can join. This forum is for people who already know they like the raw diet or sincerely want to learn more. Please remember that you are receiving advice from peers and not professionals. If you have specific health-related questions about your dog's diet, please contact your vet!

  
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Lobo

"Stubborn" dogs- don't need- corrections
 
 
Barked: Wed Sep 12, '12 3:00pm PST 
My dad has been reading up a lot on (human) nutrition, and one thing he's learned is that humans should have a more alkaline level in their blood, so too much meat isn't very healthy, as meat is acidic.

He thinks that dogs are apparently so close to us in terms of nutritional needs that he's almost demanding that I start making veggies and fruit a part of Lobo's diet. I don't want to do this. My gut tells me not to, and I've learned to always follow my gut.

But I did go ahead and do some research, and it did say that "normal" blood pH for dogs was 7-8. However, I also know that most of these tests are done on dogs who are kibble-fed.

His main reason for thinking that Lobo /needs/ it, is because there is one particular type of grass that Lobo goes out and finds and eats. I know that a dog eating ONE type of grass means little to nothing, but he's not the type to listen to anything once he's wrapped his head around something.

Basically, I just want raw feeders to help me a little with learning more about the pH of dogs. I also know that decaying meat has a higher pH.

Thanks for the help.
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Winston-dog

Sir Winston- Crazy-dog - can we play yet?
 
 
Barked: Thu Sep 13, '12 2:07pm PST 
I don't know anything about how acid/alkaline food affects our blood pH, or whether it is the same in us as dogs, but I would be very interested to know if anyone else has any ideas.
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Miso

like the gravy!
 
 
Barked: Thu Sep 13, '12 2:46pm PST 
from what I know in humans is that when you do eat acidic foods, you need to balance it out with an alkaline one. I would assume the same would extend to dogs if working with the blood pH theory.

That said, if you feel like your dog is getting the best balance of nutrients, your vet approves and your dog is healthy, then feed him as you like.
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Nare

Woo-woo- whineybutt
 
 
Barked: Thu Sep 13, '12 4:14pm PST 
Meh. A lot of people with pH problems is because they don't drink enough water to dilute or flush it out of their system. If a dog's pH is very acidic I would give more foods inclusive of water (like meat!). The reasons fruits and vegetables are good is because they're full of water too.
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Lobo

"Stubborn" dogs- don't need- corrections
 
 
Barked: Fri Sep 14, '12 12:53am PST 
So, in other words, if there's *really* a problem, I could just feed him watermelon, as that's mostly water, anyway? He does like watermelon.

But we're expanding his variety of meats anyway, so I'll see what happens.
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Bam-Bam, CGC

Lil' Rubble
 
 
Barked: Fri Sep 14, '12 5:22am PST 
Now, I don't really know much about blood acidity, but part of the benefit of meat making a dogs system so acidic is that it enables them to more effectively kill pathogens. This is why many raw fed dogs can eat something with quite a bit of funk, because that acidic system helps them kill it. Likewise, this is in theory, why it has not been recommended to do raw and kibble together... Because the high levels of carbs in kibble may alkalize the system, thus knocking down a dogs natural defenses. This is why kibble fed dogs may be more prone to salmonella contamination and a variety of other pathogens.

However, like I said, I don't know much about blood acidity. I just know that having an acidic system vs. alkaline is part of natures way of protecting a raw-fed dog.
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Meridian

Proud to be a- kitchen wolf!!!
 
 
Barked: Sat Sep 15, '12 5:37pm PST 
Dog's aren't people!!!! Their digestive chemistry is REALLY different than ours, and inappropriate diet causing unnatural pH is a big factor in illness. If you're feeding a proper raw diet and things are good please don't go adding in a bunch of veggie content to appease your dad and his dangerously incorrect assumption that dogs and humans share digestive physiology and that munching on some grass is a sign of that.

It sounds like he's into reading and research, perhaps you could direct him to some good information on raw diets and help him learn why fresh raw meat, bones, and organs with little or no other additives really is the most appropriate diet?

I'm not really sure about the various desirable standing pH levels of various body systems, but I do have some thoughts on the grass-eating phenomenon which might be of interest:

Dog or Cow? Grass Eating Carnivores?
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Member Since
09/15/2012
 
 
Barked: Sat Sep 15, '12 11:51pm PST 
watershed.net will have a lot of the information your looking for. As for me my dog's only drink Alkaline water as do I. There's very real science behind why the Alkaline water is good for you and your animals, does it cure cancer? no probably not. But there are great benefit's to it.. In my opinion as someone who has drank Alkaline for more than 4+ years is it's going to hydrate you and your animal's better. If I set out two bowls of water in front of my animals one regular water, one Alkaline there's no doubt my animals would drink the Alkaline over the other. Animals in the wild can distinguish what meat on the kill is best suited for them and quality, they can also distinguish which water is best for them if given the opportunity.
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Charlie

The world is my- food bowl!
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 16, '12 12:31pm PST 
What on earth is alkaline water?

Forgive me, but that could not possibly sound more unnatural to me.
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Foxxy

Pocket Wolf
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 16, '12 1:37pm PST 
Oh it's this controversial thing. alkaline water has minerals added to make it high pH There is another way of doing it with ionization.

your tap water might already be alkaline. It's just if the pH is above 7, which can be tested with a fish store water strip. pH 7 water is ONLY water that is distilled and free of all impurities, minerals, or additives. Every place on earth might have slightly different water pH depending on source water. For example, where we live the water comes from wells dug in the sandstone near a river, and it comes up pH 8.3--this is alkaline due to trace minerals.

Here's the deal: your body will neutralize acid and alkaline things in the GI tract. Once alkaline water hits your stomach there is no conclusive evidence that it does anything special or different from regular water.

we eat a high pH diet to manage acid reflux. the problem with high pH is that you are at higher risk for kidney and bladder stones. The advantage supposedly is that it reduces free radicals in the body, which reduces the risk of cancer. And it's easier on the teeth.

The deal is that pepsin in the stomach is activated by acid. Pepsin is the stuff that breaks down protein. It can't distinguish between a steak dinner and a living esophagus, so when you reflux, the pepsin attacks your tissues, which eventually causes scar tissue, polyps, and cancer. Keeping a high pH diet keeps the pepsin less active but it's a super strict set of foods. The problem is that life itself is acidic, so the higher the pH you are targeting, the less foods that are available to you.

I don't think dogs can easily do it considering it is all low fat and high in veggies, and minimal fruit. I suppose if you fed dogs nothing but fish and fowl, red apples, root veggies, watermelon, musk melons, pears, bananas and avacado you might be able to get away with it. It would be lower protein than lots of raw feeders would be comfortable with. I suppose including bones would help, that's something that human food doesn't include. dogs are similar only because we are mammals, and they are mammals that have lived close to us for millenia, but as carnivores they are better able to tolerate acid than we are. for humans, a high pH diet includes all things that are higher than pH of 6, with occasional foods being pH5.

The best thing, of course, is minimal processing, which we already have with the raw diet. Processing decreases pH. FDA insists that canned goods be acidic (pH4 or less) for food safety. Kibble is intensely acidic, and that is avoided with raw. Meat becomes more acidic when it's cooked, also avoided with raw. I think if you are rigid about no cooked food, no processed food, your dog is already getting a good version of an alkaline-ish diet for his species, and your dad shouldn't give it another thought.

Edited by author Sun Sep 16, '12 1:53pm PST

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