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Confused about rotating diet.

This is a dedicated place for all of your questions and answers about Raw Diets. There are also some really cool groups like "Raw Fed" on the topic you can join. This forum is for people who already know they like the raw diet or sincerely want to learn more. Please remember that you are receiving advice from peers and not professionals. If you have specific health-related questions about your dog's diet, please contact your vet!

  
Gryphon

Ill eat- anything.- Seriously.
 
 
Barked: Thu Jun 21, '12 8:57pm PST 
Im trying to do all my research before I start a raw food diet. And I'm getting some mixed messages regarding rotating the diet. Am I feeding different types of meat when I rotate or the same types but different cuts of meat? And am I rotating daily or weekly? I would also like to get peoples opinions on veggies- weather to implement them or not. Any input is appreciated.
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Thu Jun 21, '12 9:08pm PST 
Different kinds of meats like beef, lamb, pork, venison, rabbit, chicken, turkey, duck, quail, ostrich, elk, guinea pig, beaver.... Feeding different bits of beef/pork/lamb/turkey is great too but we mean feed as many kinds of meat as you can find and with a heavy emphasis on mammal meat. Do not break the bank sourcing that last muscle on lamb!

You can rotate as you please. Some buy a pork roast and the dog eats that until it is gone. Some make up daily bags/bins and switch meats every bag/bin. I make up bins that have 2-3 days of food in them of bony meat, boneless meat and organ and feed through that until it is gone. Just over about a week's time be sure the dog gets enough organ and bone and over a month's time gets lots of different red meats.
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Cookie

the chi-weenie
 
 
Barked: Fri Jun 22, '12 7:27am PST 
rotation or variation is only as intense as you can afford it to be. red meat over poultry for the more nutritious meat and variation will come really slow since the dog's stomach usually doesn't take well to too many diff. meats too soon.

for example, started with chicken, then moved to beef, tried pork but I gave too much too soon and had to deal with poop in the house and rancid gas from my dog for weeks, so back on beef. I found a great place that prepares prey model raw and I buy their complete beef mix (ground) because it's in bulk for cheap. I love it because it doesn't have any fruits of veggies. just meat (bones&organs). unfortunately it's ground, but I give chicken thighs or beef knuckles or other things I find at the grocery to her on weekends, to help clean her teeth and let her really chew something.

I don't bother so much with 'cuts' because I just look for whatever cheapest at the time.

I found Nature's Variety frozen raw near my house and I'm going to try some, 1) to help with my nonexistent variety of meat and 2) to maybe get my roommate interested in it for her puppy. the only thing I don't like about it is the 5% veggies and fruits. -.- BUT I tend to give my dog her favorite sweet potato fry dog treat often so it's not like I'm completely against veggies.

If your going to give your dog veggies, cook and puree them first so he can get the maximum nutrition from them.
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Gryphon

Ill eat- anything.- Seriously.
 
 
Barked: Fri Jun 22, '12 12:05pm PST 
Okay, I get all that... But im also wondering about frequency. Am I giving a chicken back once a week, a raw fish once a month, and bone-in chicken breast every other day?

And also, how do you feel about veggies? Ive heard both sides of the argument... If you arent giving veggies, are you supplementing with any oils/vitamins and if you are giving veggies, how many and how often?

I realize i could do a forum search for these answers, and I have, but a lot of answers are very situational to that persons specific dog... im looking more for opinions on the general feeding of any dog as well as personal accounts. Id just like to see how I can take your diets and customize them to fit Gryphon. Its the customizing im having issues with smile
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Charlie

The world is my- food bowl!
 
 
Barked: Fri Jun 22, '12 12:28pm PST 
You're over thinking it smile.

There are parts of the raw diet that you should be fairly strict on, but most of it can be played by ear. We feed a very limited diet of chicken RMBS, ground beef, green tripe, organs and some fish. I don't set out particular dates. I watch my dog's stool to know when they need more or less bone, and otherwise I just think maybe once a week "Hey, it's been a while since they had _______".
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Gryphon

Ill eat- anything.- Seriously.
 
 
Barked: Fri Jun 22, '12 12:57pm PST 
I probably am!! But I cant help it, ive read so many books talking about kelp and fish oil and omega 3s and how much bone to give and veggies (are they above ground or below ground?) and how much calium to give and how much vitamin C are they getting ect...

Its enough to drive me crazy!! lol
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Fri Jun 22, '12 1:04pm PST 
I do make sure Max gets his 10% organs every other day or so. He loves them best but they will cause soft poop. He gets them along with bony meat to be sure he doesn't have nasty poop. I fill in the rest of his meal with boneless red meat if it is smaller than he needs. The alternating days are boneless red meat. If the bony meat/organ/boneless meat meal wasn't bony enough I will give him a bit of bone on a normally boneless day, I keep chicken feet and heads for that. Small fatty fish work as well. Just this week a boneless meal still resulted in firm poop so he got 2 boneless meat meals in a row. Maybe he is getting shorted on organs but I am not going to worry about it. He loves organs so much I tend to overdo them anyway.

Max gets a mineral supplement, vitamin E, zinc and fish oil as supplements, partly because he is a senior getting less than 2% his body weight daily. If he ate vegetables he would be getting a mineral supplement, vitamin E, zinc and fish oil for supplements. Veggies bring nothing to the diet for him. Some dogs do need them as they do poorly with bone or need more stool firming than bone can provide. I haven't any problem letting him have some as a treat but do not regard them as essential parts of the diet. If you decide they are a must keep them to less than 20% of the diet and feed low calorie types.

Plan to feed through whole chickens for about a week. If poop is soft take off the skin or feed less. Don't proceed until you can feed all the skin however.

IF poop is good then start with another protein the following week by feeding a bit less chicken meat or skin and putting in just a bite of the new meat. Each day add another bite of the new meat and take away a bite of the chicken. If all goes well by the end of the week you will be feeding half bony chicken and half boneless new meat.

The next week feed bony chicken with just a bite of another meat. Each day substitute another bite of chicken with another bite of the next meat. By the end of the week you will be feeding half bony chicken and half the second meat.

Next, go for an organ. Chicken liver is probably better than pork or beef liver and easier to find than kidney. Figure what a daily portion of liver is for your dog. Max gets 1 ounce of organ a day so a daily portion of liver is .5 ounce. Cut your liver into daily bits, put on a cookie sheet and freeze. Pop them all off and bag save one. Take that one bit of liver and sliver it into about 10 slivers. Roll those slivers in a sheet of plastic wrap. Now feed ONE the first day. Then 2 the next and so on.

Repeat the organ intros for each organ and do try to feed at least 2 livers and 2 other organs.

After the dog has tried maybe 4-6 different meats and 4-6 different organs plus you are more relaxed about the whole thing you can just chuck new stuff and it will be fine. I didn't bother to feed an ounce of ostrich or llama to Max, he had tried half a dozen different meats and organs by that time.

No the diet isn't going to be complete until all the organs and meats are in it but it is fine to be short for a while.

A diet that is half bony chicken, half boneless red meat with a couple different organs is fine. Max doesn't much care to eat pork or lamb bones these days. In time you can feed less chicken and more red meat too. Max's chicken bone is very bony but in small amounts. He gets chicken ribs rather than whole breasts, backs rather than thighs so I can feed him more red meat.
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Cookie

the chi-weenie
 
 
Barked: Fri Jun 22, '12 4:13pm PST 
lol it sounds like you need to wipe your brain to get a more simpler grasp on this laugh out loud

seriously, just try to start from a whole new perspective. just know that your dog will get a safe and complete diet from nothing but meat bones and organs. all that other stuff like veggies and vitamins are just extra and people add them mostly when they 'feel' the need for it. so don't rack your brain over it. omega 3 oils are good to give if you feed a lot of cheap meat because those livestock are fed grain and their meat is low in omega 3s. but if you feed grass fed meat then it should be higher in omega fatty acids.

just think of the meat+bone+organ as the main complete diet, and everything else is like a treat.

if it helps you to have a schedule then go for it. I have one, though it's pretty flexible. but that's just how my brain works best, planning ahead.
you can feed a whole raw fish whenever you want, it's got meat bones and organs all in one. you can feed just meat on some days. and chicken with bone in it some other days. They only need 10% bone as opposed to 80% meat. Feed your 10% organs meat the same time you feed your 10% bone so that the bone will help the poop stay solid.
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