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Double Merle puppy from non-merle parents

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Gucci

Love is Blind <3
 
 
Barked: Sun Nov 25, '12 10:19am PST 
I have been told by several people on here that my puppy is not Albino she is actually a double merle she is all white with pink skin a pink nose and pink eylids she has not one spot of color on her but has blue eyes she is partially deaf and blind as well.

So the big question is then if she is a double merle puppy wouldn't that mean that both parents would have had to been merle in color? Her parents were tan and white with black noses and dark ruby red/black eyes.
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Mateo

Super Service- Schnoodle
 
 
Barked: Sun Nov 25, '12 10:47am PST 
I could be wrong, but if the parents both carry the merle gene and that was transferred from both sides to the puppy, it could become a double merle. Again, I don't know much about this, so please someone who knows more correct me if I'm wrong.
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Bosley

Will Work For- Food
 
 
Barked: Sun Nov 25, '12 11:10am PST 
Mateo, the Merle gene is never "hidden" (recessive) so you can't get a double Merle from parents who are not merle.
mm would produce non-merle coat colors
Mm would produce a merle
MM would be a double merle

So if you don't see merle in he dog's coat, it would be a mm and not capable of producing merle or double merle. You can cross a mm with a Mm and produce some merle puppies, but no double merles. Crossing a Mm with another Mm would cause about 25% of the puppies to be born MM (double merle). The rest would be mm or Mm.

Gucci, if you are sure both parents were not merle (and sometimes it is difficult to tell, especially if the Merle pattern is in a very restricted area) then you could just have a white puppy. In your pictures, Gucci's eyes don't really look light to me. Does she have any pigment coming in on her nose at all? Sometimes it can take a while. I am wondering what type of hearing test your vet did? You could take your pup to Western Vet and have a BAER test done to determine the exact range of hearing loss. White pups that have white pigment in their ear canals can have hearing loss, even if they are not double merle.

Edited by author Sun Nov 25, '12 11:17am PST

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Toto, CD, RN, CGC

We don't do- doodles!!!
 
 
Barked: Sun Nov 25, '12 1:30pm PST 
HOWEVER... the same thing happens with PIED dogs... I know this from Frenchies. Pied dogs CAN and often do suffer the same issues with deafness and blindness when they are bred together.
The same thing can also happen in other pied breeds as well. Gucchi... a pied is a mostly white dog with patches of color. As mentioned before, my first Frenchie was, for all appearances, a white dog BUT she had two small lemon colored patches which made her a lemon pied. She was also missing lots of pigment and had ONE hot pink eye and half her nose was also pink. She was a wonderful longlived dog, but it was a disqualification for showing and/or breeding.
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Mishka &- Luna

1263406
 
 
Barked: Tue Nov 27, '12 3:40am PST 
All white dogs with blue eyes, pink paw pads, pink noses, and pink eye lids are also known as Lethal Whites. The same goes for horses that are all white with pink noses and blue eyes. Although Lethal white is mostly known and seen in the American paints (horses), dog breeds like aussies, and blue merle great danes also can be seen with it. Instead of being known as Lethal white syndrome (LWS), they are known as double dapples/double merles. Also if a dog has LWS, it is not to be mistaken that this syndrome is lethal to dogs like it is in horses. This often results in the dog having digestive problems, blindness, and deafness. About a year ago I was at a dog event and a great dane rescue had an all white great dane whose eyes were pink. She was blind but not deaf. I've never heard of dogs with the LWS to have short lives. I know with foals who have LWS they are known to not live longer than a day or two. Majority of the time horse owners will have the foal euthanized after its a couple hours old. I've known a few paints with LWS actually live but they are castrated (if they are stallions) as soon as they are old enough and mares are kept on constant watch for when they come in season so they don't have an unexpected breeding. Horses that have LWS can pass the trait on even if the other parent does not carry the gene. As with dogs I know you have to breed two merles together to get a double merle. If both parents are tan piebalds then there is a good chance that gucci is a diluted pie bald and not a double merle or LWS.

I think the only reason why your vet called gucci "albino" is because vets try to use more common terms for owners to understand on what they are talking about. For example if he/she told you that gucci has lethal white syndrome you may have gotten the wrong idea and scared for your puppy and your family sake.
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Toto, CD, RN, CGC

We don't do- doodles!!!
 
 
Barked: Wed Nov 28, '12 9:41am PST 
M & L, Lethal white is NOT the same thing in dogs as it is in horses. Double Merle results in too much white due to the double dilution effect. White (lack of pigment) affects vision and hearing nerves during development, hence the issues with hearing and vision. The only other fairly predictable issue can be skin problems, most likely due to the sensitivity of the white skin.
AND, these same vision and hearing issues can result in ANY dog with white in certain areas... ie, dalmations, pied Frenchies, Harlequin danes, white boxers, and others. In these cases, it has NOTHING to do with the merle gene, and to call them Lethal White is totally wrong.
Finally, as mentioned before, there are PLENTY of breeds where white with pink pigment occurs naturally in that breed. Again, this is NOT lethal, and doesn't carry any implications of ill health or future problems.
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Gucci

Love is Blind <3
 
 
Barked: Wed Nov 28, '12 12:01pm PST 
Gucci has sky blue eyes but the pupils are not in the middle and she has starburt pupils her nose is pink, her feet pads are pink her skin is pink her eylids are pink and she does not have one spot of color anywhere on her body, mouth or ears anywhere. My vet just did a simple hearing test and we are scheuled to go back for the other test mid december she can see better than she can hear but is partially blind and partially deaf.
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Gucci

Love is Blind <3
 
 
Barked: Wed Nov 28, '12 12:03pm PST 
I will post a closer up pictures of her eyes on her profile
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Farley

Farlekiin the- Dragonborn
 
 
Barked: Wed Nov 28, '12 4:52pm PST 
From what I gathered on the lethalwhites.com site, starburst pupils and pupils that aren't centered or are otherwise in weird shape or placement are telltale attributes of double merle.
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Ember FDX

Go Go Devil- Bunnies!
 
 
Barked: Thu Nov 29, '12 11:46am PST 
The best way to get to the bottom of this is post photos of her parents from all angles. As mentioned, both parents have to be merle to get a double-merle pup, but the merle can be restricted to a very small area of the body.

Also helpful to post photos of the other males the breeder had on the premises. The mother is the mother, but she can carry pups from up to 4 different males and accidents do happen. Breeding merle Chis at all is regarded as irresponsible in the first place, so odds of an "oops" breeding in their kennels are that much higher.

ETA: Her size is also an indication of merle lineage. A show-line Chi should not be more than 6lbs as an adult, and based on her photos she looks like she's already surpassed that at 3 months old. Merle Chis are often oversized, in the 10 - 15lb range, likely due to the other breeds crossed in to get the merle genes.

If she's a rescue or the breeder refuses to release info on her parents, I think someone's trying to cover their butt...

Edited by author Thu Nov 29, '12 11:50am PST

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