Using the sperm of deceased dogs

If you are wondering what is the right dog for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about tail wagging and learning.

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We don't doodle!
Barked: Tue May 14, '13 4:30pm PST 
Hehehe... I NEVER did use my dog's frozen sperm because there was always some "living" dog out there that I liked BETTER, at least in terms of bringing something new and exciting into my line!!! So, yes, point taken. I agree, if everything has improved in your line you would be dumb to go backward!!!
But... it IS fun to dream about, and to imagine young "Charlies" (my frozen guy) running around once again. However, as with ALL dreams, we remember all the great stuff and tend to gloss over those parts that you were breeding to improve in all the later years I guess!!
Do you like my posting as Quincy better than Toto???? I was afraid no one knows Quincy yet!!!
edited to add...perhaps what I don't like about Quincy's head right now is what I wanted to improve on in Charlie all those years ago. Quincy has more Charlie in the 6th and 7th generations than Charlie had, BOL!!! (But, his sire was a complete outcross!)

Edited by author Tue May 14, '13 4:33pm PST


Spooky Mulder
Barked: Tue May 14, '13 7:38pm PST 
If I may contribute a thought, options vary wildly on what is "better" or "improved" upon in many breeds.

Not everyone's vision of what is ideal is uniform, and just because one person sees improvement, does not mean the next will.

Speaking personally again, a Neapolitan from the 1970s is an idea that appeals to me greatly smile

Who says "modern" is better?
Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
Barked: Tue May 14, '13 8:10pm PST 
That can boldly vary, absolutely, but ANYONE breeding in twenty years should better what ever it is they are breeding, per their own vision. Or one would hope that's a goal, otherwise they got into breeding simply to produce puppies. I suppose with some rarer breeds that in and of itself is reason enough, but once a breed has that basis, that becomes a little funky....the hope is that the breeders involved are trying to improve the dog. That "improvement" can be whatever their vision is.

So it doesn't have to just a structural improvement, let's say. It can be temperament, working ability, etc. Or if someone says a breed has gone too extreme, you can work towards improvement breeding for less. Quite a few people seem interested in longer legged Dachshunds, in example, and are quite dedicated about it.

One way or the other, you should be improving. That's sort of the core reason for being inspired to breed, unless a breed simply needs numbers. Twenty years of breeding, I'd hope to see a breeder who had come far, outside of that context.

I know that for me, in example, when I do start to breed Cockers, I will be breeding for less coat. Chester has the coat I consider ideal. His breeder was a sporting spaniel breeder, and she started with show dogs and bred "backwards"....but that's still improving. Improving = moving step by step towards your vision, bringing each generation a little closer. My goal is to recreate that old school Cocker temperament, and that would take a very long while. I would start with good temperament, but I want that UNIQUE temperament that made the Cocker the Golden Retriever of its day. That's what Daniel is supposed to be. His type stinks, but he has that bombproof master of merriment thing going on. Labor of love, his breeder actually breeds primarily field Labs (nationally titled and all that jazz), but always has one Cocker litter a year, which she has been doing forever, trying to get that temperament she knew as a kid. It's a side hobby for her and as small as a breeder can get, but she's still dedicated, and giving her points that Daniel is ridiculously kid proof....that's how they used to be. Ideal kids dog.

Tiller's breeder puts out dogs you can pick out from a crowd. Her dogs are REALLY distinct. She actually started with Dobermans and you can see a touch of that in her Giants, and she's also a horsewoman....a Dogster pal who wants a Giant says she wants that "horse like" Giant, meaning those with that sort of look. I was walking into PetSmart a few years ago and this woman ran up screaming "is that dog from California?!" She was a groomer there who had transferred from GA, a slightly Giant heavy region, and as a groomer her eye was that trained. Pretty amazing as his breeder is always importing, so she is taking those import lines then putting her vision on them. Even working within standards (not to say you have to, 'natch), a breeders interpretation can be dynamic.

Edited by author Tue May 14, '13 8:13pm PST



Edward - Sweet to the- core
Barked: Fri May 17, '13 6:00pm PST 
Actually Tiller you can use AI with TB's in some limited measure - the jockey club allows it when both horses are on the same property. Technically it is to "back up" regular breeding but it is being done more and more. The reasons the Jockey Club don't allow AI are largely rooted in the money stud farms make in foaling out and hand breeding. Mares foal out at the farm where the sire stands so that is a big money maker in terms of breeding/foaling fees. Therefore by making the mare be on the property the stud farms still get the big breeding fees.

The really interesting thing with horses is the use of clones for breeding. I have a number of clients that I do equine photography for that have cloned stallions. Some of the studbooks are allowing clones for breeding, some aren't, some have separate clone books. So far I don't know of any studbooks with dogs that allow cloning - but I bet the Eastern European countries will be the first as they are leading the pack in terms of clone breeding with horses.

Also with horses there frozen embryos and embryo transfer are not unusual and many studbooks allow it. I don't think I've heard of this being done with dogs, but why not with a good bitch. And I know AKC doesn't allow it, not sure of other studbooks.
Winnie Mae

Just let me jump- it!
Barked: Mon May 20, '13 10:10am PST 
It is a little strange when you think about it. Here's a Trakehner stallion still siring foals 13 years after he died: http://americantrakehner.com/Stallions/abdullah.asp And yet, as odd as it is . . . why not? If the stallion/dog was a good one, why limit the blood to his lifetime? Embryo transfer I also see the benefits of, but cloning scares me. Don't know why, it just does. Seems more "natural" to have a sire that's dead 15 years and a baby born out of a surrogate mother than an exact genetic clone . . .

As a side note, I saw a very adorable video of two foals: full-blood brother-and-sister, one from the actual dam, one from a surrogate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X5hBKl23Lg Very interesting to think about.

Edited by author Mon May 20, '13 10:18am PST

Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
Barked: Tue May 21, '13 10:18pm PST 
Ok fine, I am a square! laugh out loud big laugh Don't get me started on cloning! wink
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