GO!

For Way down the road!!! Breeds and traits for Schutzhund & Search & Rescue!!

If you are wondering what is the right dog for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about tail wagging and learning.

  
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Jackson Tan

Lad about town
 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 1, '13 11:38pm PST 
You need the right dog for PPD and the right trainer. The right trainer will tell you if your dog is suitable, a good trainer should never take the dog you desire as a PPD prospect and just train it because that is what you want. There is great danger in training the wrong dog, teaching that dog to engage instead of retreat, and all the boxes must be ticked temperament, drive and nerve wise before one even contemplates training. And no boot camps! I would personally select a mid range GSD as my first dog of this type and just do the sport of Sch. to begin with. Not the driviest, craziest pup, but a nice even prospect that I can learn from and build up to. Never ever start with a full throttle dog. You have to live with this thing after all!

A dog with a big bark and a good alert is priceless, most people do not require a dog who will engage to feel safe. My dog has 'protected' me many times and is not a PPD. You might want to consider a dog like that. Usually that's enough to scare someone away.

Michael Ellis has a great video on the pitfalls of training the wrong dog here :

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zRvCKulu1u8

He is an excellent trainer and I recommend looking into him to gain more knowledge on PPD and the popular breeds as a whole. way to go
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Mulder

Spooky Mulder
 
 
Barked: Tue Apr 2, '13 8:20am PST 
Really is impossible to stress GOOD TRAINER enough.

A GOOD TRAINER in PP work is amazingly important here, and is why I stayed away from it for so long (also why I wont join any of the local Sch clubs, even though the two are very different).

A good dog can be ruined by a crappy trainer... so while you need to have the right starting materials, IE a good dog, the final outcome you get is based on the training, and that outcome doesn't need to be anything you have any second guesses about.

Mulder doesn't do PP work as seriously as some... its mostly just an outlet for him, as I do not feel as though I actually need a protection dog in regards to my personal safety. I do it because I love HIM, and want him to be doing something I know he loves and is good at. I told the trainer going into that push come to shove, I know what's in this dog and if I needed him he would be there, so we didn't have to blaze any trains in the training. Just good, clean training for him to flex those jaw mussels laugh out loud

But going with that, Mulder is my "pet" first and foremost. Though he is a "working" dog in that he actually does work, his primary function in my life is that of companion and friend. If he never did a serious day's work in his life, that'd be ok, he'd still be my best buddy.

He is bullheaded and can have a serious attitude when the mood strikes him, but I consider him 100% stable in terms of being safe in public. I never worry about him trying anything stupid in relation to his protection training- he would not bite a child who ran up too quickly, or go after a person making too much noise on a walk. Part of that is just who he is- not overly social, but a cool customer, loves kids and is tolerant in just about every situation so long as no one's trying any funny business way to go

If you're not overly familiar with protection dogs, I would start easy like everyone's said, and go with a nice moderate GSD. Most trainers know how to work a GSD, and should mistake be made along the way (which they will be on your part, everyone makes them!), it is the breed that will be the most forgiving of that. Plus GSDs tend to be one of the more socially open of the protection breeds, they can still function perfectly as a nice house and family dog.
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Jake & Sweet- Caroline

Tricolored- Hounds for life!
 
 
Barked: Tue Apr 2, '13 8:45am PST 
Lenny- Thanks! That's pretty much why i was looking at one. I already have two good alert dogs big grin jake is great for preventing people from coming to the door. People are often surprised he's so small once they get inside. He's a whole lotta bark and he's never bitten to my knowledge. Sweetie also sounds bigger then she is.

Jack- That's a good idea. I may decide to learn more about Schutzhund the sport. I have wanted to get a dobie to do Schutzhund with since it seems like something that would be fun and I like dobies a lot. My ex had one and i've helped petsit/ care for a few for more then a few days ;D. I think they're handsome pups.

Mulder- Thanks! Your input was good. I like the idea of a GSD. I do like them a lot. Grandma had a lot of them when i was growing up along wtih Akitas. I've seen that just having a larger dog tends to be enough of a deturrant for most.

When looking for a "Good" Trainer what is it I would be looking for? Is going to the local Schutzhund club not a good place to start?

** I'm such an over preparer.

Thanks again for all your information! I"ve learned so much already!
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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Tue Apr 2, '13 8:48am PST 
I agree with Titus. Generally speaking, you have two options. Find a prospect (which is different than finding a puppy) and work with a trainer, or purchase a finished dog.

Although I will say....not entirely up to speed here with what Lenny said about a farm?....if you are envisioning a farm protector there are quite a few livestock guardian breeds who are extremely natural guards. They actually wouldn't be very good PPDs, but are often very trustworthy to guard a farm.

What's the difference? Well, a PPD needs to be social, even and adaptable. This is a dog who is meant to be able to be taken anywhere and be very trustworthy. Not a suspicious dog, for then of course society won't be safe. One of the most important things for PPDs is that they can accompany you when, say, you are carrying something very valuable. This is where in society today they continue excel and don't have a lot of replacement for, say, traveling through airports and such. So you in the end need a dog who socially is fine in such places and hotel lobbies, but still is very reliable protection. Let me put up the video Titus linked, which didn't work for me when I clicked it.

LGD's (livestock guardians) are not ideal PPDs because they are not very trainable, not very social and also have a natural suspicion. They can be stable as rocks, though, and very loyal to their property and their family. They alert when someone comes on the property, and if there was a real threat, these are dogs bred to take on some pretty serious predators....they are very tough and don't intimidate easily.

Generally speaking, a PPD is a dog trained in protection so that he knows "how" to bite, is confident, will protect, but can be taken anywhere and everywhere without being a social risk. LGDs are sedentary....they belong to their farm or property, learn its rhythms, and when something is out of whack, they stand up with the intention to do something about it. They require a lot less training, which is good as they are monstrously independent and make decisions very much on their own. They are great for farms where there is not a lot of traffic, and you need them to alert on anything out of the ordinary.
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Sabi

When the night- closes in I will- be there
 
 
Barked: Tue Apr 2, '13 9:37am PST 
Sabi is a PPD. In her case trained to work alongside me as I performed high risk patrols, or work with me to protect a third party.
She can go anywhere, will do anything BUT a threat to me changes everything.
As far as SARS many around here are shelter pulls. In fact I haven't seen a purebred Avalanche dog around at all.
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Jake & Sweet- Caroline

Tricolored- Hounds for life!
 
 
Barked: Tue Apr 2, '13 10:04am PST 
Tiller- Hi! The farm has to do with the fact I will be living probably by myself on a small farm after I graduate school. And i wanted a dog for protective purposes that knows how to protect. I've only ever known 1 dog that was a protection dog and he was a retired K-9 dog. he was amazing!

I've met plenty of dogs that can protect but I wanted a dog that knows how to restrain and take out someone (if the situation ever came up). I don't plan on doing anything as cool as Sabi like high risk patrols or personal protection but I wanted a dog that would know how to protect me if somethign was happening. And a dog that I could call off after the danger had passed.

I think i like Mulder's approach were it's somethign the dog enjoys and I may never actually be in any danger but if i ever was well you know...

Maybe purchasing a finished dog is something to look into in the future if I feel i seriously will need a PPD.

Search and Rescue is something I wanted to pursue seperate from the PPD and Schutzhund. I realize looking at the title now I should have worded it differently. But SAR was somethign i was interestd in with Jake and i taught him now to track but Idon't have the time to train jake for this purpose + with his bad eyes it became kind of moot.

But for now I have some interesting prospects to consider in terms of PPD.

I already decided if I ever have more livestock then Rabbits and a few dairy cows that I"d look into a live stock guarding breed of dog but at the moment I really just kind of wanted something small (farm) and didn't plan on having animals roaming the land. big grin As of yet anyway. So no need for a live stock guarding dog as of yet in the future plan.

Thanks again! All your information is very helpful. I love learning so much about these types of dogs. All your input and information has been invaluable.
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Sabi

When the night- closes in I will- be there
 
 
Barked: Tue Apr 2, '13 11:42am PST 
I should mention that in Sabs case we went backwards. I was working with a trained, company owned dog and she was supposed to be a pet. At a very young age she was showing an over developed urge to defend me. I took her for assessment with my boss because I was fully aware of the dangers of her behavior and wanted to stop it. He suggested that rather then override an instinct, I teach her to do it right thus making it controllable instead of risking that if push came to shove she would go with instinct over training. As it turned out since she was a stable, easy dog he was right. Had she just been a nutjob, he would have made a much different suggestion. Temperament is first and foremost with this training.
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