Favorite Doodle?

If you are wondering what is the right dog for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about tail wagging and learning.

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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
Barked: Wed Nov 28, '12 9:58pm PST 
Apparently *you* do not understand the term. Hybrid vigor is the result of crossing SPECIES, not breeds. A mule in example, is a hybrid. Hybrid vigor between dog breeds is a myth, as both are dogs and of the same species.

High-flyin' Pup!
Barked: Wed Nov 28, '12 10:33pm PST 
Furthermore, having a mixed-breed dog does NOT mean that it will be healthier. My sister in law took on an English Shepherd X ACD mix who was supposed to be a working dog...but he has hip displaysia and an autoimmune disorder which has cost her over $12,000 in vet bills over the last five years.

SO MANY of my customers (I manage a pet food store) have poodle crosses with fancy names who have skin/stomach issues. I've always known "mixed-breed vigor" was mostly a myth, but this really drives it home for me. Oh, and many of them shed!

Barked: Thu Nov 29, '12 2:43am PST 
I know a 50lb rescue mutt, complete mix and completely unexaggerated. His owner took him to be hipscored before doing agility came back with a score of 85, here it's scored out of 106. Breeding F1 crosses can help where you're talking about basic dominant/recessive conditions because there are two copies of the gene needed but some breeds have the same conditions like PRA so it doesn't even help there. Crosses are not magically healthy, neither are all purebreds falling to pieces.

On the matter of agility dogs, there was a three-way cross done here out of three agility dogs, sold for ridiculous money as potential agility stars. Nearly all of the litter has failed their eye tests.

Besides why not just get a long-haired weimeraner shrug

Edited by author Thu Nov 29, '12 2:46am PST



Where can I run- today?
Barked: Thu Nov 29, '12 9:02am PST 
Those who are against breeding hybrid dogs obviously have never heard of hybrid vigor or don’t know enough about it to open their mouths.

How so? I have two mutts, both of which have had their good share of health problems. My husband's aunt also just had to put their Goldendoodle down at the age of 9, kidney problems, and long issues with intestinal and digestive issues. They were heartbroken, she was a very nice dog. So much for that "hybrid vigor" though....

Hybrid vigor can improve the performance of many animals. That means, you get a better hunting, herding, agility, etc. dog when you cross breeds.

Huh?! How so? How does cross-breeding magically create better drive??

Trust me, purebreds are far, far from perfect.

No one said they were.

In fact, many breeders of hybrid dogs find that F1 (first generation) hybrids make the best mothers.

Wow, what?? Where are you getting this from???

It's also no secret that hybrids outlive their purebred counterparts by many years.

Um...LOL. See above.

When you breed a Labrador Retriever to a Labrador Retriever, you are doubling your chance of puppies with potential health problems associated with the Labrador Retriever breed.

Um, so introducing a different purebred with its own set of issues is...better...?

I always laugh at people who claim that breeding two different purebreds will result in the worst of both breeds! This is just not the case.

Of course it can't always be the case, but how can you claim it can NEVER be the case? Of course that can happen. You make no sense.

Dogs from genetically diverse parents are going to have stronger immune systems. This helps in withstanding infections, parasites, viruses, autoimmune diseases, and allergies.

Based on what.

Sorry, you make all these bizarre claims but have nothing to back it up with. You think people against "hybrids" are laughable, but frankly, your counter-argument is hilariously laughable. Look, people can buy whatever they want, but I don't think they should be duped into all these bizarre magical claims. I think purpose-bred mutts should be health tested and so on just like purebreds should be, and if someone really really wants a Goldenweinerschnauzerdoodlebug, that's their call, but to walk around and say things like mixing breeds auto-magically creates better drives, more focus, automatic better health, better moms (?!?! Sorry, but I seriously LOL'ed at that one), magically takes only the best genes from each of its parents, and other claims is nothing more than silly nonsense.
Shiver Me- Timbers- "Charlie"

My Little Dog, a- heartbeat at my- feet.<3
Barked: Fri Nov 30, '12 3:48am PST 
Van - laugh out loud big laugh Are you a BYB of mixes by any chance? Cause you sound like one that's trying to make sales on their pups. None of your arguments make sense. I laughed at nearly every point you tried to make - and I own BOTH a purebred AND a mix-breed.

Kolbe hit the nail on the head. way to go

Barked: Fri Nov 30, '12 11:04am PST 

Dog breeds were formed through years of inbreeding functionally conserving traits, good and bad. If you cross two purebreds you wind up with a mix off all of those traits. What is passed on is a roll of the dice particularly with recessive and/or multifactored diseases. And in many cases the F1 dog may be just fine phenotypically but genotypically they can be a mess.

Some can be fine but frankly find me a doodle breeder who health tests for every test recommended for the breeds in their mixes and doesn't breed when their dogs inevitably fail and I'll give you the deed to my house.

Whippy- The- Whipador
Barked: Fri Nov 30, '12 11:24am PST 
Guys, just don't respond to Van. Seems like a troll post to me, just wanting to cause a reaction thinking

Edited by author Fri Nov 30, '12 11:26am PST


I am the Sock- Bandit!!!
Barked: Fri Nov 30, '12 12:27pm PST 
The term 'hybrid vigor' more scientifically known as heterosis is used when referring to crossing breeds as well as species. It is most definitely used heavily in livestock breeding terminology as a cross within the same species. Here is an example:

'The parent stock produces more broiler chicks than the
Cobb 500, yet the new cross still
provides a very competitive broiler. It is
the enhanced hybrid vigor, or heterosis,
associated with crossing completely
unrelated pure lines which has led to
such a combination of qualities.'

from http://www.cobb-vantress.com/Publications/documents/Cobb_Focus_Two_2 006.pdf

Not the most scholarly journal, but I'm just putting it here as an example of how livestock breeders use the term. I talk to geneticists preserving heirloom breeds (one of the top programs for feed livestock in the US) and they use the term that way, or say 'heterosis'. It does exist otherwise outcrosses wouldn't have been relied on to assist some purebred dog breeds plagued with certain diseases and conditions. This is something that livestock breeders have known about for ages and they don't fight it the way the purebred dog fancy does. I've seen both sides of the issue and geneticists think the severe reaction is mystifying in dog fancy circles quite frankly. There is hard science behind it. But obviously the proof is in the stock, which is again why livestock breeders and plant scientists make use of it.

Not all crosses will result in improved vigor, obviously, but they have found that enough do to warrant exploration for specific reasons. It isn't a myth, sit down with a geneticist and they'll talk your ears off for two hours explaining why and the many ways it has been used in animals and plants to benefit breeding.

Spooky Mulder
Barked: Fri Nov 30, '12 12:36pm PST 
I've never been against intelligent crossing of breeds or dogs for their betterment or for a working purpose. Again, bandogs are a thing that fascinate me endlessly, and I think the few people doing that RIGHT really have something.

But that's not what these breeders who breed "doodles" are doing.

They are breeding strictly for superficial reasons. I wont even say all of them are unethical in the sense that ALL they want is to make money off of them... MOST do, make no mistakes... but for the rare few who do it because for whatever reason they just like the cross... I've NEVER seen do it for any other reasons than looks and marketing.

They CLAIM "oh all the intelligence of X with all the temperament of Y", but that's literally never the case. You never see people who have any sort of thoughtful program that actually measures those qualities they claim to be breeding for. And sorry to burst that bubble, but you CANNOT claim such things if they have NOT been tested.

They do NOTHING with their dogs... no testing, health, temperament, or other.

They are nothing more than pretty little liars, and the public is so grossly ignorant as to lap it up with a spoon.

Black dogs rock!
Barked: Fri Nov 30, '12 3:30pm PST 
Van said:

"Dogs from genetically diverse parents are going to have stronger immune systems This helps in withstanding infections, parasites, viruses, autoimmune diseases, and allergies."

Perhaps you care to explain to me why my Mutt has various intolerance's to different foods and is allergic to flea bites and my purebred Chihuahua can eat anything with no problems and is not allergic to flea bites? shrug
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