WL GSDs / DDR (Mulder?)

If you are wondering what is the right dog for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about tail wagging and learning.

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Woo-woo- whineybutt
Barked: Wed Aug 15, '12 4:13pm PST 
So.. red face
When I graduate next year-- I've decided to finally get that puppy I've been dreaming about.

Oh god. Another one.
I keep going back and forth on the breed.. but..
Someone from my Schutzhund club.. Okay, multiples of them..
Keep sending me here --> http://www.schraderhausk9.com/index.html

It.. Would be fun. To be able to be super serious about Schutzhund and all, with a super drivey puppy. And Ringsport. And everything. Super versatile?
I also feel like, showing would be fun. But that may be too much at once.

But. Hows it like to live with them?
Should I expect anything other than an average puppy?
I don't know what I'm getting myself into. Help help help. :U

The Boy Wonder
Barked: Wed Aug 15, '12 5:14pm PST 
There are a lot of people who Really live on the fence about Kreative. Personally I've seen some Really nice dogs from them, I've also seen a couple kinda funky ones but as with any breeder you have to look at the human element.

From my Personal experience they are really good at trying Not to give you more of a dog than you can handle and since they breed as many litters as they do they do have a fairly good handle on which breedings are going to produce what types of pups. They don't however have a lot of 'purity' of their lines. They breed dogs for work rather than DDR/Czech ect type line. And as such they sometimes have a wide range of different looks to their pups. They're prices are a bit high in my opinion but they have a fairly good record of producing nice hips/elbows and have a decent if not stellar contract. Just a note you are Not going to get a dog from Kreative that does well in the AKC show ring, it's a completely different mindset and a totally different dog. You will get a dog that can compete in just about everything else but conformation shows will not be the high point of the career.

As for living with a super drivey dog of any of the shepherd breeds it depends on the dog, your ability to create a 'calm' in the house and how much you want to deal with. They tend to be land sharks as puppies and will bite just about everything they can get their mouth on, more so than most puppies even. They take a lot of work, but all of my shepherds have always been calm in the house as long as they are given enough regular exercise. Working with a good breeder to make sure you don't get in over your head and end up with more dog than you can handle is important.
wishes because I surely do love the little german land sharks.
Bruno CGC

Honorary Kelpie
Barked: Wed Aug 15, '12 7:50pm PST 
Happy.... what? Kreative? Nare's link is for Schraderhaus. If I'm not mistaken, that's where Mulder's second GSD, Ridley, is from...

Edit- WL GSDs seem to do better in UKC shows than AKC, and actually have a decent chance of being placed over showline dogs. Our other resident black WL GSD, Onyx, is a recent UKC Champion.

Edited by author Wed Aug 15, '12 7:53pm PST



The Boy Wonder
Barked: Wed Aug 15, '12 8:12pm PST 
Am I losing my mind? ... well more than usual? I could be sure that I saw Kreative, heck I even thought I copy and pasted it. Schraderhaus is a whole different book. Jean's a gem and has been wonderful every time I talked with her. She has wonderful dogs and is very into the right homes for her pups.

Okay I'm going to take my brain fried self somewhere, sorry for the mix up.

Do you even- lift?
Barked: Wed Aug 15, '12 8:28pm PST 
Yeah, Mulder's pup is a Schraderhaus dog. Onyx is from Waldkonig/Timberhaus (she recently changed the name from Timberhaus to Waldkonig) who shares a lot of studs with Schraderhaus and both focus on DDR dogs, so the lines are quite similar. The DDR dogs on the whole aren't super prey driven, unlike many of the West German working dogs. The West German dogs are actually more popular in high level Schutzhund, from what I understand. Which isn't to say DDR can't do Schutzhund, obviously they can, some quite well, but the really high prey drive often isn't there, they tend to have more fighting and defensive drives.

I find Onyx very easy to live with, but he does get quite a bit of daily exercise and mental stimulation. Even as a young puppy I didn't have any trouble with him. But again, exercise. From day one we were taking walks, going new places, meeting new people. We're currently enrolled in four different classes, so there isn't a lot of down time. I find he's the most tired after something that really works his mind, like herding. Some working lines GSDs definitely need more than others, and I'm probably doing more than is really necessary for him, but he's more than happy doing just about any kind of activity.

Like Bruno said, the working line dogs can do well at UKC shows, especially the dogs with lots of V and SG titles in their lines. And because the UKC is owner handlers only and very friendly to newcomers, it's much less intimidating to get into than AKC.

Edited by author Wed Aug 15, '12 9:03pm PST


When the night- closes in I will- be there
Barked: Wed Aug 15, '12 9:38pm PST 
Bud is DDR/Czech and I would say overall he is easier then the girls. He is more straight forward. If he's tired, he's happy. He is less needy, way better with other dogs and largely self sufficient. He is intense and definitely needs a workout. Unlike Onyx he does not need to use his brain, and doesn't like to. I call him a workhorse, give him a job and he'll do it, but I need to take care of the thinking part.
Sabi never stops thinking in contrast. And that makes Bud easier to some extent.
I have only dealt with this one line so my opinion isn't worth much, but overall most of them had similar attitudes to Bud with the females generally being more difficult. And in glancing through Schraderhaus pedigrees I see some of the same breeding in their foundation.

Woo-woo- whineybutt
Barked: Wed Aug 15, '12 9:39pm PST 
Lol Happy. laugh out loud
I took a look at Kreative's site regardless. They have some nice looking dogs, thanks for giving me another option!
I have heard so much of Jean, but of many others too.. Ray was another one I was told to look into:

We have dogs from both of them in my club for sure. I've met many of them, but only while they were working, which is why I was wondering how they did in-home.
On the plus side, Jean is about 30 minutes away, and is in the area where we do herding. So that would make everything supersuper easy.

Hi Onyx!
Timberhaus is in WA too? We must be the GSD state.
That is a lot that you do with him. Are those classes that are once a week each?
We don't do a lot with classes.. Our schedule is about:
Schz - We meet once a week
Training - Three 10 minute sessions a day
Herding - Every other week
Hiking - Once a week
Walking/Jogging - 20 minute morning jog, 40 minute afternoon walk, 20 minute night walk off-leash
Then we randomly play fetch or with a flirt pole if Nare gets the zoomies..

Is that enough? laugh out loud I'm sure I could also ask for a more mellow puppy too, but I guess I'm sorta looking for a challenge at the same time.
But, he does have an 'off' button?

Also.. How is his coat? Nare is a mix, but I loooovvee, loooovvee, looooovveee his fur. Some GSDs I've met have rough and really course fur. I guess I would just have to meet the parents (hopefully, if they're close enough).

& Your experience with Onyx.. Hard or Soft dog?
Nare melts at the hint of agitation.. The thought of me getting upset with him is a correction enough.
But I've read (and seen) many GSDs that need prong / e-collars. From how people act at my club, I probably seem really soft. We have a trainer, who said that I wouldn't be 'hard' or confident enough to handle a bullheaded dog. Which was a blow because.. A lot of the dogs I like are those ass-type dogs! Akitas.. Huskies.. laugh out loud

Do you even- lift?
Barked: Wed Aug 15, '12 10:03pm PST 
Yeah, Timberhaus is in Eatonville. WA does have quite a few nice working GSD breeders!

Our classes are each once a week. Mostly all the driving is what eats up the time and money! It really depends on the dog what will be enough, but I think your schedule would satisfy most GSDs.

Onyx definitely has an off switch in the house. As long as he hasn't gone a long time without exercise, he pretty much just lazes around, follows me from room to room, and asks for pets occasionally. But as soon as he knows we're going to do something, he's ready and willing.

His coat isn't super soft, but it is softer than many GSDs I've touched, and people have commented on it. He's not a plush coat, but he does have more coat than some, so it's not as prickly as the really short ones. Diet also plays a role I think.

Hard or soft...He's kind of both. When he wants something, he wants it, and it's not easy to deter him. Sometimes he'll decide to be a butt and just push and push, and needs a stronger correction. At the same time, if I get frustrated in training with him and unfairly over-correct, he can get his feelings hurt. The way Mulder put it to me is that dogs from these lines can be hard, but handler soft. They can take pressure from the environment, decoy, ect. but will yield to pressure from the handler.

Edited by author Wed Aug 15, '12 11:02pm PST


Spooky Mulder
Barked: Fri Aug 17, '12 8:33am PST 
Sorry I'm seeing this late, haven't been around as much!

First off, I will always give Jean a recommendation at Schraderhaus should someone be interested. She is an excellent person to work with, and will find a pup that meets your expectations, even if it isn't one of her own.

Timberhaus (Waldkonig now I guess) is also a very good kennel. Mulder's sire is a Waldkonig dog out of Jean's Lux. They also have very nice dogs.

How they are to live with depends on your living situation, and what you're willing to do with the dog. I consider mine fairly easy to live with, no major drama, though I am very particular about how I handle them.

Something I find to be very important with them, else have come to this opinion over time, is giving them as much freedom as is reasonable. With Ridley I started as soon as he could go outside- put him on the long line, and let him do his own thing (with a little training sprinkled in of course). We go out, he gets "his" time and doesn't have me harping over him contently. Same for Mulder, though I keep a closer eye on him as he his more independent and more prone to mischief wink

Hard or soft, very much depends on the line (and yes, there are many even within the broader "DDR" lineage). Mulder is primarily DDR, with a half Czech mother. He is, by all accounts, a much "harder" dog than Ridley (straight DDR), though not necessarily a "hard" dog in general. Mulder is the sort of dog who can roll with the punches, who can take some bad handling and not be bothered by it either way, and who can put up with some stupidity. He can get his feelings hurt, but he's just as quick to move on when you pick the pace up for him again.

Ridley, on the other hand, is much softer. He does NOT take poor handling well, and is very handler soft. A raised voice and a regular collar pop is about his maximum threshold for corrections. Any harsher than that, and he shuts down, gets depressed, and will not work. Whether or not that's good or bad depends on how you view things- to me, the less that is required to get the desired response, the better. If me saying "knock that off!" in a gruff tone gets me what I want, then great... I don't WANT to use anything harsher than that.

Ridley, IMO, does not have as good of nerve as Mulder does either. Things just effect him differently, and bad experiences stay with him longer than they ever did with Mulder. I have worked hard with Ridley, and in the end things are really coming together and he's turning into a really fantastic dog, but I put quite a bit of effort into getting him there... where as with Mulder, it was all very natural.

Both of them are drivey, but neither of them are over the top. Mulder has more prey drive than Ridley (so far anyway), but neither of them are prey nuts by any means. Mulder is VERY defensive, will bring the fight if you ask him to, and again is more independent in general. Mulder is also very tolerant, is fine with being petted or fussed over by strangers, but frankly would rather be left alone, even with me. Ridley LOVES human contact, gets wiggle-wormy when people pet him and wants to be touching you at all times.

Barked: Sat Aug 18, '12 2:34pm PST 
There are great dogs in every line. You just need to know what you're looking for. A lot of the things people mentioned here are just generalities that really don't tell you anything. Talk to a lot of people about litters you're interested in. Remember that the dam is just as, if not more, important as the male. Titles do not always mean very much so always try to see the dogs or ask knowledgeable people. If you ever watch a Sieger show you'll understand what I'm talking about.

I prefer breeders who HOT. Bill at kulladogs.com has some great dogs - love Boy von zorra and Hilde. Last I knew he was going to have a repeat Boy x Hilde litter Spring '13. Thinking about that one for myself, though it may be too soon for me. Olgameister kennels, Sontausen kennels, Staatsmacht, Sitz vd Hose are all great breeders in the US. I have a habit of looking overseas for my dogs. More options out there in my opinion if you know what you're looking for. Aritar Bastet just had a litter I wish I had gotten a pup from out of Tanja AB.

I personally stay away from brokers.
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