GO!

returning to breeder

This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!

  
(Page 9 of 9: Viewing entries 81 to 87)  
1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  
Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Tue Jan 1, '13 2:00pm PST 
A non believer in the context that you were sure she would develop fear aggression. That's just not so. Regarding the euthanasia comment, no one rightfully could be mad at you for something you didn't DO wink, but it was the mere concept...that she had this bad attack, now was frightful, so that's about it for her and her future.

You post here enough where I know you to have good knowledge. This has thrown me for a whirl and leads me with no other conclusions than you put too great a weight on the fear imprint....which isn't something I ever thought I would hear myself (to anyone), as I always stress it. But it is not some life sentence, should the puppy endure a catastrophic event at that time.

There is really NOTHING, in my experience, that would ruin a puppy. Only indifference, or believing that they are beyond helping.

A year ago or so, I fostered a litter from age five days old. It is still a guilt thing for me that one pup was the whiner, the little drama prince. And the screamer. Oh my dear word would he holler and holler...like blood screaming yells. Skittish during his handling. Over time, however, my radar went up. He was avoiding his littermates more than normal. And then after a growth spurt it occurred to me that he had an odd carriage.

This puppy was wall eyed. Now I am about to say something very disturbing and I apologize, but I was in mental health years ago, and one of the people there used to be a child cruelty investigator. I had talked to her about how do you really know, with little babies? And she said babies who are suffering abuse are wall eyed. They don't know when the hits are coming, so you just keeps those eyes held open as wide as you can. It's not much, but it's the one way you can feel any control of your world. That's what this puppy reminded me of. Very wall eyed. When I took him into the vet, by now very concerned, before she laid a hand on him, just seeing him and his wall eyes from a distance of way, she exclaimed in fright, "what on earth?!"

He was loose and malformed in the atlantoaxial region, where the neck will link with the head. Obviously the weight bearing region, so intensely painful. This little man had been living, effectively, in a torture chamber frown Every time his littermates, or I, tried to play with him, would come searing pain. He'd holler, which would excite them, and they'd get aroused and come at him harder. This is all he knew. Day in and day out. That's why he didn't want to play....feared it, with shrieks of terror if he anticipated it in any way.

Maybe he will teach you something here. I removed him from his litter and put him in a crate on my daybed. Just so he could come to some sort of peace that he could control his universe, which he hadn't been able to do. Here he is, and what I love about this video is that you can see his conflict....drawn to his crate as safe, a little bit touch apprehensive. But as just a baby, still full of a desire to learn and explore life. Even in experiences that had severely traumatized him and brought him nothing but intensely painful suffering, again and again and again. With some patience, he was still drawn in. And conquered his demons.

Not only was all that experience something he left behind, but he was in time trotting around my horse like a cocky little beetle trying to incite TILLER into play. The two were extremely fond of each other, and as he grew came to be extremely playful with all dogs and people. The first in on a scene, no apprehension. This despite an extended time of searing pain, intimidation, being totally frightful and overwhelmed. But he was still a little puppy, with so much room in the time ahead to learn, explore and adapt.
[notify]
Riku (Forever Missed)

Heart of Gold
 
 
Barked: Tue Jan 1, '13 2:39pm PST 
Same with me, Toto.. Riku had a horrendous life for the first few years.. All she had known was abuse, neglect, and an overcrowded backyard with MANY neglected GSDs. She was the runt, and was bullied/attacked on a daily basis. This was all information collected from the owner when they seized the dogs. Her Mother was in the kennel opposite from her when I first saw her, and both of them were nearly dead. I can barely even imagine the conditions they lived in..

But she obviously became the most incredible dog I've ever had (read her story on my page!). Confident, protective when the situation warranted it, flawless off lead, wonderful with small animals and children, and became fearless in life. She nurtured my sister's son, was great with other dogs, and was fiercely affectionate with my ferret. How could that have even been possible when the first few YEARS of her life were nothing but torment? It's possible because dogs are NOT ruined by past experiences.

Tiller - That was a wonderful little story/video..

Trigger - amazing posts (as usual).

But I think we can all decide at this point that despite the amount of experiences, statistics, and proof we have all provided, the OP is going to continue to ignore all of it and continue to not only believe, but teach falsehoods to others.
[notify]
Bunny

Black dogs rock!
 
 
Barked: Tue Jan 1, '13 2:59pm PST 
I am afraid you guys are now talking to yourselves. The OP has deleted their profileshrug An interesting discussion nonetheless smile
[notify]

Riku (Forever Missed)

Heart of Gold
 
 
Barked: Tue Jan 1, '13 3:28pm PST 
Great observation, Bunny! laugh out loud Thanks for telling us.
[notify]
Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Tue Jan 1, '13 4:14pm PST 
Oh, ok, good. Now I will not be in defiance of community guidelines.

a) I already predicted...and no, I am not psychic laugh out loud....that Toto would likely have a story of a puppy severely attacked. All people in the dog fancy for an extended time *DO* Her recounting also mirrors what my mentorship has taught me, and what I said in an earlier post, yet again confirmed by Toto's experience....you don't need a big behavioral rehab strategy with these guys. Just give them normalcy, patience and care. Puppies learn, adapt, develop. It is what they do. This is something that was entirely lost on the OP, and rather than learn from people very experienced with this end of things opted to feel it all was too complex to understand. This puppy had every candidacy, with the right guidance, to be a well adjusted adult. To not think/know that is the viewpoint of someone misinterpreting what they are reading in text books. Puppies are EXTRAORDINARILY resilient.

b) Not everyone wants a behavioral dog. Fine. I don't think one has to. My first dog, in my childhood, was a big problem who required police intervention multiple times, I worked with a trainer and he got much better, and I while I had a sense of achievement, accomplishment, I would not want to go through that again. I will gladly work with troubled dogs and do, but I want a simpler life with my own dogs.

But for this, I leave no stone unturned in getting the right candidates. I cannot FATHOM how someone with this hardline would get a puppy already being rehomed in her short life. Even without knowing of the attack history. Why would you do this? To have absolutes and then not research heavily prior to getting one's puppy is a novice error. I don't think the OP is a bad person, but this was something to learn from. A carelessness that cannot be repeated, and that should be passed on to others as one to be avoided.

3) Just on my mount that the dog attack PALES in its potential consequence to this poor little puppy getting traded around like stale bread. I don't think that means the OP is awful, but it is a wake up call as to our responsibilities in being very thoughtful about the dogs we take on. She's had her trust violated repeatedly in her short life. I find that terrifically sad. For all she has been through, she has needed someone to stand by her, which apparently now is the apartment-dwelling dog breeder who let her puppies be loose in a parking lot. Just a very sad situation.

Life is about learning. Sometimes we have interpretations that turn into beliefs and a day comes where we learn we are wrong. We grow with that and make the world around us a better place by having the humility to learn, to grow, to be strong, better. Sometimes, sadly it is the ways of life, we make mistakes. Errors in judgement or careless actions. We learn and grow from these, too. Again, avoiding the knee jerk of self defense, looking in the mirror and rather than resenting the moment treasuring it as one where we had an "aha" and now are the wiser, which in the long run makes the world a better place.

This puppy was unfairly sentenced. Essentially having her life upended because of a bad incident, and now rather than supported, is sentenced, on some erroneous assumption of predisposition. She did nothing wrong. Other than be a puppy, subject to the whims of the adults she has had in her life. What a sad story this is.

If her life stands for anything, let it be for the education that has been put forth on this thread.

Peace. And full thoughts and a little prayer extended to that poor little girl out there somewhere.
[notify]
Sabi

When the night- closes in I will- be there
 
 
Barked: Tue Jan 1, '13 6:09pm PST 
Tiller that was something that confused me as well. If you place such importance on fear stages why take a cast off pup with a largely unkown history?
I just feel sorry for the dog. Poor little one, everyone keeps ditching her and I see that as much more damaging then an attack. Now I just want to bring her home.
[notify]
Twister

forever loved
 
 
Barked: Tue Jan 1, '13 7:37pm PST 
Sabi, I know, right?! That was what puzzled me. Why get the pup if you are so hard-core about your beliefs in the fear stage? Hope the pup gets the help and love she needs.frown
[notify]
  (Page 9 of 9: Viewing entries 81 to 87)  
1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9