|Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M|
I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
|Barked: Wed Nov 14, '12 12:26pm PST |
|I think the ecollar comment is that you need to do what you need to do. Certainly, this does not entail distressing your dog, which clearly this trainer does not do. Good trainers do not need to intimidate dogs into working. The use of some some compliance geared training does not in and of itself equate with intimidation. As I said earlier, in the AB obedience routine, at one stage the dog barks at his handler. On a sit, he wants to go, and hollers "c'mon!!!!" Still holds the sit, so that makes it humorous. That's a sign of a very healthy relationship.
Some people don't want to see that. I don't know how many times I have said it here. I am really, really sorry so many people here have been with HACK traditionalists trainers. In that field, you go with someone with resume...like a REAL one, not the "I-went-to-dog-trainers-school and "my doggies are so, so happy!"....and there you will find someone who trains with a base of PR. People talk about crossover and gentler as if the only people who use or believe in the powers of PR are R extremists, which is sheer nonsense. I don't know if people are actually that ignorant or are intentionally full with the propaganda. Who knows.
It is important to spread, for people to know there are options. An R trainer, who Dogster sometimes publishes, put her breeder raised puppy on meds before he is even two because she cannot manage his behavior. That is insane to me. That is kinder? Rather than try other methods, you are going to drug a CHILD dog? That is not kinder. It's not like people on this community are not talking about that.
One of the trainers put up as an alternate. I checked into her. Seems nice enough, but I see nothing to recommend working with working drive based aggression and her testimonials are from a couple of puppy owners (Doodle and Entlebucher), a mixed breed shelter dog and a Bichon. Where in one's mind would this person be well prepared to understand working drives, which are the core problem here, let alone have this sort of experience?
Certainly, I could understand if the site was represented by cowering dogs and ecollars-r-us mentality. But you have a breed expert, ULTRA comfortable with aggression, has broken records with this breed, is a go to for AB breeders on the east coast, will also know this pedigree, works with functional and dysfunctional aggression all the time. How are those two even in the same ballpark. It's like comparing apples to a paper clip.
This is a serious issue. Sometimes you really are cutting your nose off to spite your face, but in this case it is not your nose, it is a dog's life. I cannot begin to tell you how uncool I think that is. Not if you want to put up trainer options, ok fine. But to anywhere in head think this is the "wrong" trainer for this dog is so lacking in any rational platform it is scary. This is his LIFE, he is internationally respected, his dogs thrive and love him. No one gets into the head of this breed more expertly.
Generally speaking with a dog like this, the whole "trigger," "threshold" and "reactive" mantra falls a little flat, for while you can work on that individual trigger (say cat food) and better it, you are not working on the core cause....the assertive nature of this very sensitive breed coupled with his high territoriality and defensive drive. Those are hardwired. Those never go. So you are talking about a chronic in these cases. It will be one thing after the next after the next. Anything to spark those dynamic parts of character composition. If you work with those qualities, on the other hand, build bond, focus, coping mechanism and teach him how to channel those drives, then the scenario, the trigger....doesn't matter. It's never the trigger that causes the problem, it's the character of the dog. If the triggers are isolated or limited, easy to work with. If the triggers, on the other hand, are very broad in the environment....which in this case they would be, as he is ON DUTY, in a territorial sense, 24/7 for the rest of his life; it's just what these dogs ARE....you need to work with that truer core cause. His working drives are self fulfilling. A fearful dog will get a sense of relief and be able to move away from a "horrible world." A working drive based problem is not a "horrible world." ABs are used a lot as catch dogs in hog hunting. They can go in there, get torn up, and once patched up be oh so game to race in and do it again. Those are two awesomely different bananas.
Edited by moderator Mon Dec 17, '12 4:38pm PST
|my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals|| Edited by forums moderator|