|Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M|
I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
|Barked: Wed Nov 21, '12 3:45pm PST |
|I was not directing anything at you per se, Stella. Perhaps to the world. I dunno.
If you have heart for your dog...and I am sure you do....I have heart for this breed. Who I have seen ruined to the euth room with the best of intentions. It is that I have been there. Everyone here is always talking about their personal experiences. That''s great....and I do not mean that sarcastically. I feel that. I get that. But I also get this, and have my experiences also. I know what is going on. I know what not only can be done right (and there are several options), but I also know what can be done wrong. And the results are very sad. I have personal pain attached to this and a promise to a dog, my beloved Starvin Marvin. Who brought himself out of a zone where he had just given up on life, ceased eating. We made it through together, and it came to a bad ending post adoption.
Some think I argue here. I don't. I don't say half of what I could, or challenge half of what I can. No point to. It's abrasive, and that is not my aim. But this is personal. This is about a promise. I will not dismiss anyone here, but I also will sentry this thread. Because I have to. HAVE to. On a deeply personal level.
Some have those levels, too. But they have not had this dog. I have. I know what fails. A drive stemmed issue can be fixed entirely, or it can make the dog too much of a life threatening potential to continue with.
Moreover, I not only have my AB experiences. I have experiences of a massive DA dog bringing my own pet very close to death. I have no tolerance at all for a dog with that sort of force potential being loose in the community. These issues get FIXED, or I am not doing much service to my Hatteras, either.
I do not feel Ali is right for this dog. If "no" is bad and "reactive" is some all encompassing catch phrase, no way and no how. I am sure she is good at what she does, but I have yet to see a trainer skilled at everything, and with such an ideology her approaches are inherently limited. Canine genetics are way too diverse.
@ Missy....I do not feel you are being argumentative. I can answer your question. Surfacely, a JRT may show the same responses, but they likely are not. JRTs are very low nerved, ABs have extraordinarily high nerves. If this dog was showing low nerves, whole different ball game. Then perhaps Ali's approach might serve better. But that his nerves are high, and that his history shows a highly operant dog, his potential for a complete recovery are very off the charts. Aspects Ali does not work with. Those are potentials gone to waste. Not all dogs have them. I can put Tiller around a highly aggressing dog and he won't flinch. Duncan has seen that. So I have witnesses That is nerves coupled with training. It's not that he won't and can't. With Chachi baiting him all the time one time Tiller got past me, ran down the stairs and tarred him a bit. Body slammed him. Could have killed him, but didn't lay a tooth on Chachi. Only Tiller was bleeding. Again, that is nerves. Needing to show his strength with no impulse to use his teeth. That is nerves. 100% operant, not wanting to harm, just wanting to assert. That is why some people are all over dogs like this. I will always prefer high nerves for how far they can take you, but not all dogs qualify. I wouldn't expect such things from my Cockers on a bet, which is why they are R trained. I work with what I have. Always. I appreciate all training approaches. Always. Don't think I don't, unless it is important to you that it is. If I need to be wrong in order for you to be right, in which case I'd think you do need to question yourself, as I do not feel such way of you. The breed you are thinking of needs structure, leadership, and "NO." If you can find your way around such things, I say rock on. If you can't, I would hope you have the sense to seek alternative options other than drugging your dog because you are "kinder and gentler." Sometimes one can get lost in their own forest. An open mind is a good thing.
ABs, as I am sure Cain will attest, have both a kill instinct and a terrifically hard bite. People who work with little dogs can't even see this. My Philo, a GSD, once bit me by accident, for less than two seconds, and released as soon as I yelled his name. In that very slight incident, my arm was broken. That won't surprise Cain either....that's why helpers need to wear thick suits. If an AB flips into a true fight instinct (referencing here fight or flight), the amount of damage that would occur would be catastrophic. That no one has needed to go to the hospital due to these outbursts signifies a dog who is full control of his responses. This opens up the gate for training that utilizes those nerves for a full control, which not only will lead him to a full and unrestricted life...something Ali's very lingo on her site does not offer.....but also prevent some tragedy befalling another Hatteras on the street.
You work with what you have. When you have nerves, you use them. They are GOLD. When you have drive to channel, you use that. When you have exercise, outings and walks that can totally level a dog out....which this dog has already indicated....you use that, too. If they aren't there, they aren't there. Or even when they are and do not suit, you need to think wider. Would I use a tight R structure if it suited? Sure! But this dog is showing a measured response. Nerves intact....you flow with that, for he has far more potential than an inoperant dog. Operant or inoperant to me are very dynamic points.
Here is an article that deals with some of these issues. Destined to go over like a lead balloon with some, but it is not as only the ignorant would agree with what I am saying.
Edited by author Wed Nov 21, '12 3:47pm PST
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