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Cesar Millan - Good or Bad?

This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!

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Zwolf

"Utility and- Intelligence"- -Stephanitz
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 28, '06 5:41pm PST 
I saw another topic on something somebody had written about the Dog Whisperer. However, I don't feel like reading through some 40 posts with many not regarding my thoughts here. So, this could be considered sort of a debate over his tactics in dealing with dogs.

Personally, I'd never listen to a man who'd run a 12 week old large breed puppy on a treadmill. Puppies aren't supposed to get extreme exercise in the first place. A man seen on TV daily by non-educated people should at least make sure that what he is doing is correct. It can cause damage to the hips and even cause Hip Dysplasia.

Now, even though I dislike that, I do like some things about what he does. For one, he makes it clear that dogs are NOT children. That mindset accounts for most problems with dogs we see today. He also attempts to get people to work with their dogs daily to finish a goal. That's great considering a lot of people will work with Fifi for a day, play with her because they're bored with working with her, then expect her to learn something.

One thing that I am both ways with: He's constantly reminding people to be in the "Alpha roll" with their dogs. He shows them how; shows them how to yank the lead to make a dog go back into a mindset of "OK, you're the leader!" If you don't know how to do that, it's a great way of ruining a dog's personality. Just like hitting a dog: if you hurt the dog, it won't respect you. It'll fear you. Yes, he warns people and tells them to consult a professional before using any of the techniques. People are warned about HIV, what drugs can do to you, how drinking effects you, to buckle your seat belts, etc. and we still do them! How is a small 5 second warning going to help?

Anyways, I want to see other people's opinions on him. And don't just post "ZOMG! I love the dog whisperer!" or "I hate him". Explanations are needed so you can inform me and the rest of the public about why he's so great or so bad.
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Vance CGC

You kids g'off- my lawn!
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 28, '06 5:47pm PST 
You're only going to get another 40-some posts exactly like the ones in the other Cesar topic.
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Ginger DSA- ThD TT CGC - &hearts

My Angel
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 28, '06 5:56pm PST 
Just wanted to post a quick note that over-exercising a puppy cannot *cause* hip dysplasia. What it can do is aggravate an already existing condition. Meaning if the dog/pup already has some joint abnormalities/issues they may go unnoticed until old age unless the dog does activities that are hard on their bones/joints and if that happens the condition may become apparent much earlier.
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Molly

PLAY RUN JUMP- PLAY RUN- JUMP.......
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 28, '06 6:01pm PST 
I haven't seen his show, I don't get that channel but had heard alot about him and bought his book. I did not like his techniques. Or I guess I should say they weren't for me. I like having my dog as my pal, I feel I am the leader of our little pack, but don't feel I need to be so harsh to accomplish that goal. I just think his methods are a little extreme for me but they must be popular with alot of people becasue he is still going strong. Like you, I don't know how a person could really learn how to do something properly by watching a tv show - if someone really wanted to use his methods I think they should read his book(s) and really understand what's involved. Since I've never seen the show I can't really comment on any disclaimers that he may make but I would hope he would tell people that they need to really understand before using any of his training methods.
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Zwolf

"Utility and- Intelligence"- -Stephanitz
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 28, '06 6:03pm PST 
Ginger:

"Definition
This disease consists in the defective development of the hip articulation. There can be many causes to this disease, like overfeeding or over-exercising the animal (during growth)."

http://www.seefido.com/dog-breeds/html/hip_dysplasia.htm

Edite d to add link

Edited by author Thu Dec 28, '06 6:05pm PST

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Ginger DSA- ThD TT CGC - &hearts

My Angel
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 28, '06 6:13pm PST 
Here is a good article that explains what I said:
http://www.thepetcenter.com/xra/hd.html

(Quote):

"2. Physical Activity - In a young, growing dog with a genotype (genetic makeup) for CHD who will eventually develop some trouble because of it, will develop more arthritis and have more eventual difficulty if it is highly active physically. Climbing stairs, jumping into and out of pick-up trucks, running with other normal dogs can all subject the growing hip structures to unwarranted stress and trauma and increase future discomfort for the dog. The effects of this excessive activity is worsened in an overweight pup. (In a normal, growing dog, all these activities will not cause hip dysplasia!)"
(end quote)
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Shimmer

I can rise to- any standard- that you set.
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 28, '06 6:16pm PST 
I admire and understand your goals on this one but I think this will quickly turn into a dog bone fight when attempting to discuss the issue in such a detailed manner as you would like...I can easily play the devils advocate and argue both sides till the cows never come home.
my contribution as a trainer who is experienced with and uses or has used every method out thier...nothing is new....
.............................................
"I saw another topic on something somebody had written about the Dog Whisperer. However, I don't feel like reading through some 40 posts with many not regarding my thoughts here. So, this could be considered sort of a debate over his tactics in dealing with dogs.

I think you should in order to understand the dynamics of the issue better in my opinion and where this can only lead.

"Personally, I'd never listen to a man who'd run a 12 week old large breed puppy on a treadmill. Puppies aren't supposed to get extreme exercise in the first place. A man seen on TV daily by non-educated people should at least make sure that what he is doing is correct. It can cause damage to the hips and even cause Hip Dysplasia. "

I would have to agree with you on that point to agree and it depends on the impact to the pups structer verses running on pavement or other surfaces and the duration...as one who is well versed on the HD problem and deals with it daily for working dog and pets.

"Now, even though I dislike that, I do like some things about what he does. For one, he makes it clear that dogs are NOT children. That mindset accounts for most problems with dogs we see today. He also attempts to get people to work with their dogs daily to finish a goal. That's great considering a lot of people will work with Fifi for a day, play with her because they're bored with working with her, then expect her to learn something.

One thing that I am both ways with: He's constantly reminding people to be in the "Alpha roll" with their dogs. He shows them how; shows them how to yank the lead to make a dog go back into a mindset of "OK, you're the leader!" If you don't know how to do that, it's a great way of ruining a dog's personality. Just like hitting a dog: if you hurt the dog, it won't respect you. It'll fear you. Yes, he warns people and tells them to consult a professional before using any of the techniques. People are warned about HIV, what drugs can do to you, how drinking effects you, to buckle your seat belts, etc. and we still do them! How is a small 5 second warning going to help?"

I do not think he refers to it(what he does in many cases) as a traditional alpha roll and thier is a distinct difference in ALPHA ROLLING verses "siding" which he does quite often and the associated execution. I would agree that he does not adequately educate the public in understanding the difference and more importantly the understanding of various delivery tecniqs that he uses and the backlash behavior that can result from inappropriate execution.

In reality a variable response modification can be /is often nec for each individual dog as not all dogs respond similary to this approach., And for some dogs it just does not reach the desired resolution as I am well versed in this method also. I think his ultiment goal is to empower,educate, and illustrate that it can be a resolution but he/his show fails in my opinion to adequately point out that experience skills are needed to prevent associated backlash responses/issues. the disclaimer is as effective as saying that smoking can kill you. I guess that is all he can do short of remaining silent.
For example I could also take issue with the editing that goes on and the difference I have in opinion of how he uses a prong collar (which I think is totally incorrect ) less effectively than I and others who are experienced with this tool/method could or would in resolving pulling,jumping up,lunging,barking,ect..
The thing one has to understand here is that Ceasar has a different aspect than I or others in quickly teaching a dog not to pull on leash because part of his goals are to utilize a dogs desire and ability to pull on leash in other capacities and he does not want to place a lot of focus on using a particular tool for this issue but rather a more general philosphy.
Besides if he had a favorite tool that was illustrated to work every time or most effectively and with more ease he would be in the collar selling bussiness and that would not be beneficial to his goals or focal points....
Everyone is different to approach regardless of agreement to philosphy..

"Anyways, I want to see other people's opinions on him. And don't just post "ZOMG! I love the dog whisperer!" or "I hate him". Explanations are needed so you can inform me and the rest of the public about why he's so great or so bad."

I think your intent is admirable but is not feasible in this medium. For example I could (as I do) come across with a comment that I can use a prong collar on any size or breed of dog to get a dog healing by my side and not pull on the leash under heavy distractions in one or 2 sessions and the results or responses would more than likely be ...
1. I do not believe that
2, You are not telling the truth
3. prove it
4. I do not care as anyone can force a dog to behave out of fear
5, that does not work for me
6. I use only friendly methods on my dog regardless
7. you are mean

8. my approach works fine for me thank you.
9. xxxx you fill in the blank

No matter what anyone says (IMHO) you are not going to prove anything or change many peoples opinions without
live illustration and proof. And even then some things do not change..

I hope this helps with the issue

just my 2 cents worth

Edited by author Thu Dec 28, '06 7:10pm PST

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Mingus, CGC,- R3GL

www.phetched.com
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 28, '06 6:19pm PST 
Wait, I'm confused. Are we arguing Cesar Millan or hip dysplasia? Just lemme know, I'm ready to go with either one. Let's do hip dysplasia, 'cause we did Cesar like 5 minutes ago.

I kid, I KID....

puppy
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Berry Bubba- Gump

Last ofthe- famous- international- playboys
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 28, '06 6:22pm PST 
I like the other post about Cesar...I'm putting my money on this one being closed.
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Shimmer

I can rise to- any standard- that you set.
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 28, '06 6:25pm PST 
WOOF GROWL..ME 2.

want to share a bone?
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