Miniature American Shepherd/mini aussie

If you are wondering what is the right dog for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about tail wagging and learning.

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Herpaderp-apotam- us
Barked: Wed Feb 13, '13 3:58pm PST 
After an "interesting" discussion with a client in my salon today who insisted that the schnoodle was now an AKC accepted breed (I really didn't know how to properly explain how that would never happen), I got to thinking...

A decade ago the mini aussie was another "breed" that everyone would say "oh that's not a real breed, that's a bad breeder trying to make money!" just like all the designer mixes are thought of today. But now the Miniature American Shepherd is in fact an AKC accepted breed. So my question is: what about the journey of the mini aussie was different? Was it because it was a breed created with an actual purpose or is there some other reason that this breed, in a sea of many other mini/toy/teacup (shudder) breeds that are nothing but badly breed puppies? Anyone have any insight?

Noah actually came from mini aussie parents but he's just over 50 pounds (and he is not an ounce overweight). I call him my jumbo shrimp laugh out loud

The Monster
Barked: Thu Feb 14, '13 7:43am PST 
As an owner of a 35 lb Aussie, it drives me crazy to have people constantly ask if she's a mini. I resent having to clarify that my dog is a "standard". I have plenty of hands on experience with Minis in the various sports in which I'm active, and some are quite nice dogs, but I would say that the majority of the most drivey dogs don't have the most stellar temperaments.

Minis are currently in the "Miscellaneous" category. The AKC has the following to say about the category and what needs to happen for a breed to move up to full recognition.


"Miscellaneous Class

The recognition process begins with a written request to compete in the Miscellaneous Class from the National Breed Club. To be eligible for consideration to become an AKC recognized breed, the following general criteria must be met:

A demonstrated following and interest (minimum of 100 active household members) in the breed (in the form of a National Breed Club).
A sufficient population in this country (minimum of 300-400 dogs), with a three-generation pedigree. Dogs in that pedigree must all be of the same breed.
Geographic distribution of the dogs and people (located in 20 or more states).
AKC must review and approve the club's breed standard as well as the club's constitution and by-laws. Breed observations must be completed by AKC Field Staff.
If a substantial nationwide interest and activity in the breed is demonstrated and the above criteria met, the information is presented to the AKC Board of Directors for consideration to compete in the Miscellaneous Class.

Moving from Miscellaneous Class to Full AKC Registration

While there is no established "quota" or timetable for adding new breeds, dogs typically compete in the Miscellaneous Class for one to three years. At the end of the first year, AKC contacts the National Breed Club for updates on the number of dogs and litters recorded, and the number of dogs who have entered events since being eligible to compete in the Miscellaneous Class. Finally, the club must have held matches, local and national breed specialty shows, judges' workshops and breed seminars.

When all criteria are met, the information is presented to the Board of Directors for full recognition."



I think the whole process is rather silly, and I think that intentionally limiting the gene pool of a relatively new breed like a Mini Aussie over a poor criteria like size/weight is asking for trouble.

Herpaderp-apotam- us
Barked: Thu Feb 14, '13 8:19am PST 
I've met quite a few of them but not many of them are what I would call a "proper" mini aussie. Most are way too tiny and have domed heads and papillion ears. I certainly don't think AKC acceptance is the be all end all of the dog world but if it helps weed out characteristics like that, I'm all for it. There is no way these 12 pound minis can do the work that minis were originally bred for.

I never realized Cohen was so small!

Toto, CD, RN, CGC

We don't do- doodles!!!
Barked: Thu Feb 14, '13 9:00am PST 
Is there not also a Toy Aussie?? Bet that one won't make AKC status!!!

More Bored- Collies
Barked: Thu Feb 14, '13 9:15am PST 
I'm hoping that with recognition, those "dome headed" Mini's will sort of fade out. From what I understand, those with the proper breeding program aren't using Chihuahua's and Pap's to create a smaller dog? But then again I may be wrong on that one. And of course the webpages history section is still under construction...

Also the so-called Mini Aussies took a heck of a lot more work than the Doodles do. Mixing an Aussie with a Papillon isn't going to typically produce a "mini Aussie" look, it may take a few generations. Or just 2 smaller Aussies together, again wont be "mini" and thereby not as much $$$ for those breeding. Whereas the doodles are Poodle and breed x, and voila. Which I suspect is why Minis were able to produce a "recognized" breed out of it - closed breeding program and a goal in mind.
And with nothing special to offer - ie magical claims of the perfect non-shedding dog. The demand is much lower in the "normal" society as well.

A breeder of "standard" Aussies that I've spoken with at our local park is subjected to the same questions as Cohen. (And from what he was telling me, his one bitch was top in the country, whether that's true or not I am not sure, but she sure was pretty). Always the questions of "Is she a mini?" I don't understand where people are getting the misconception that these herding breeds (including Aussies, ACDs and Border Collies) are supposed to be huge.
Cobain is 1 inch away from the top height of the specified standard, and I've had people gush over how "tiny" he is for a BC.

With regard to their personalities, I've discovered the same. It's like they haven't quite mastered control over the drive/temperament ratio.

Edited by author Thu Feb 14, '13 9:18am PST


The Monster
Barked: Thu Feb 14, '13 11:26am PST 
My understanding is that Minis are 100% Aussie, simply bred down in size. Toys don't have an organized "breed" group behind them, and while some are apparently pure Aussie, most are Chihuahua, Pap and Pom crosses.

Mini Aussies still suffer from the misfortune of bulgy eyes and snipey snout compared to "standards" but I think that's simply because breeders were overly focused on creating a dog of a specific size without much attention to other features and it being a natural byproduct of actively reducing the size of animals.

bitches love- pantaloons
Barked: Thu Feb 14, '13 11:27am PST 
Well, the most obvious thing to me is that multi generations need to be bred and breed true to an established standard. Most "breeders" of the popular designer dogs pretty much breed only F1 crosses and call it a day.

Lola- Best lookin- bitch alive
Barked: Tue Apr 23, '13 3:31pm PST 
my mini aussie is currently 6 months, 8 lbs and absolutely the real deal.

Im just a little- guy
Barked: Wed Apr 24, '13 7:45am PST 
Cockapoos have probably been around longer than mini aussies. They are not going to be a reconised AKC breed anytime soon.

There are breed clubs and dog shows for Mini Aussies. They have registration pedigrees and records. There are people breeding these dogs responsibly. Not so much with the hybrids. Most of them do not come from passionate, knowledgeable or professional breeders.

I don't know about those toy aussies, those seem to be puppy mill fodder. I thought the Alaskan Klee Kai was a scam when I first heard of them, so maybe the toy aussie could become a real breed.
Ginger DSA- ThD TT CGC - &hearts

My Angel
Barked: Sat Apr 27, '13 11:20pm PST 
I thought "true" mini Aussies were basically just smaller Aussies? Not a "designer mix" of different breeds crossed together, but just small Aussies bred with other small Aussies to get a smaller dog (that can still work etc...)

So maybe that is partly the difference, it's not a crossing of two random breeds to get a new fad mixture?
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