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This Is Just Very Odd

This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!

  
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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Sun Jan 20, '13 10:20am PST 
Perhaps some of you have seen this video....two million hits. I find it beyond explanation. I certainly have seen dogs so on alert with RG that they can attack their own body part....a wagging tail is often the victim. Here, though, it is a hind leg that seems to have its own behavior, almost as if it is taunting the dog. Flabbergasting. I keep watching, I can come up with a sequence that the behavior start when he scratched his ear. But now it seems the leg itself has an actual behavior. Extremely odd.

VIDEO
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Twister

forever loved
 
 
Barked: Sun Jan 20, '13 11:00am PST 
That is very strange, I also did not care how everyone was laughing their heads off at it...hope that snarling and snapping doesn't transfer to a child's hand some day. Though apparently most people commenting all think it is hilarious and believe it's just a bored dog playing a game with himself. I dunno.shrug

ETA: Did you hear the part where the lady filming said 'ok, we'll do one more sequence...'...could she be teaching/encouraging the behavior?

Edited by author Sun Jan 20, '13 11:01am PST

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Scruffy- (RIP)

In Loving Memory
 
 
Barked: Sun Jan 20, '13 11:03am PST 
It's almost like the dog's leg was tied to a fishing line or something. At the end someone says "stop, he's getting mad." So maybe some how his leg was being manipulated by someone?

Edited by author Sun Jan 20, '13 11:04am PST

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Tyler

Whippy- The- Whipador
 
 
Barked: Sun Jan 20, '13 11:05am PST 
I agree Tiller. I've seen the video numerous times and i find it quite amazing how that back leg seems to have a mind of its own and the dog sees it as a threat.
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Shiver Me- Timbers- "Charlie"

My Little Dog, a- heartbeat at my- feet.<3
 
 
Barked: Sun Jan 20, '13 12:38pm PST 
Dr. Sophia Yin had a GREAT article on this actually, and some great points. She talked to Neurosurgeons about it too.

Dr. Sophia Yin's Article

I'm inclined to think along the same lines as her to be honest. I've seen dogs with focal seizures before too.. And to think that there is a LARGE mass of psychological and physical issues that could cause this behavior... terrifies me as to the fact that they are LAUGHING and find it FUNNY. Disgusting, imo.
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Koby

I'm a big brat- and I don't care- :)
 
 
Barked: Sun Jan 20, '13 1:12pm PST 
I agree with the rest of you. I find it appalling. I find Dr. Sophia Yin's Article very interesting. I wonder if the same behavior can be reproduced without the bone? I also wonder if there's any pain involved. thinking Koby growls and snaps at his hips when he is in a lot of pain. Some people might view that as funny, but it's not. He' s just reacting to something that hurts. cry
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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Sun Jan 20, '13 1:25pm PST 
Thanks for the link Charlie, although the dog does seem to have control of his leg? I'd challenge it on that context. although who knows. Of course I am not a vet wink, can't be sure, but still would feel an impulse to challenge that conclusion in some way as the dog seems to be able to retract his leg and/or move towards the head whether it is raised or lowered.

Also, and I hope you don't mind me saying, I think "ignorant" is probably better than "disgusting"? Important as an educator, as I know you like to be, that you can't assume people have the understanding and education you do. Sometimes I see people who could have been helped but immediately cut off because they are called cruel, mean, selfish, etc. Rather than approaching saying "oh dear, your dog looks so stressed!"

I know Dogster mag recently put up an article about a Pit who was euth'd due to behavior, written by the owner, who made all sorts of mistakes but wants to attribute the outcome to breed, shelter matches and so on. And in reading her responses, it was coming more and more clear that she has no dog savvy. And then in one of her responses, talking about another of her dogs, a Pomeranian, who "bites to the bone." Feeling this was some proof that they were devoted and wonderful owners to stand by such a dog, when in fact it was showing yet another example of not being a dog savvy owner....that this is a dog who needs help, is stressed, and is reliant on you to do something about it.

It's not that they aren't kind (could be, but certainly is not evidence) but that they don't understand.
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Shiver Me- Timbers- "Charlie"

My Little Dog, a- heartbeat at my- feet.<3
 
 
Barked: Sun Jan 20, '13 1:37pm PST 
You make a very, very valid point Tiller and I am inclined to agree with you.

I do find it to be a vast injustice to the dog to even consider it normal, or not wonder "what's wrong" and take the dog to a Vet. Although, granted, I do not know the details for sure, but the laughter in the video suggests they simply find it to be a funny behavior and nothing more. For all I know, though, they could very well have taken the dog to the Vet, or gotten some tests done to figure out what was wrong and in not knowing that, I feel perhaps I should not judge.

I simply don't understand, how even those who don't understand proper or normal dog behavior could even remotely think it to be funny or normal.. There's nothing funny or normal about a dog attacking his own leg in defense of his bone, or for whatever other reasons he may be doing so..

I do agree that it seems he has control of his own leg though, at least to some extent. But granted, even with focal seizures, a lot of the time people aren't even aware the dog is having one. I have a friend whose dog she rescued would have random bouts of aggressive behavior - a wrapper on the floor would set her off, etc.. She later found out that her dog had been having focal seizures. Unfortunately, she found out after the dog collapsed into a cluster of grand mal seizures that resulted in the dog having to be euthanized. The whole reason she had the dog was because of the dogs aggression issues - she didn't want her euthanized after the unfair hand that had been dealt to her as it wasn't her fault, and she didn't feel it safe to re-home her anywhere else. She was extremely dedicated to that dog, and even the Vets never thought anything of it until it was too late. Granted, these types of seizures are very, very uncommon - even rare in many cases.

I could easily believe pain though. But it seems almost as if the dog is resource guarding its bone from its own leg.. Which suggests to me either a neurological disorder or problem, or a type of OCD/psychological behavior(much like the Beagle I know who will chase her tail and SCREAM and do it for ten minutes at a time, to try to attack the appendage as if it were something that needed to be eradicated to keep it from hurting her further - THAT was a very sad video to have seen).
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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Sun Jan 20, '13 2:29pm PST 
Oh good....I am glad that went over ok. It's to a lesser extent, but I see so many people teasing dogs, with things like vacuums, etc. and finding it very humorous. Even demonstrating fear behavior from their dog for a laugh from their friends. RG, not sure why, is something a lot of people seem to find "funny." Not only is that cruel, but it's dangerous, and some dogs end up paying the ultimate price.

I know that can be really hard to relate to....REALLY hard. But some people weren't raised with emotional lives of animals in mind. Things have gotten a lot better and I think twenty years from now we will see this sort of ignorance far less, but right now there are still people who find it funny, or who equate aggression with confidence rather than a lack of thereof. That Pit Bull woman on Dogster mag seemed a bit that way. Unable to equate aggression with fear or insecurity. Just a "bad" or "screwy" dog who unlike her Pomeranian was too big to tolerate safely. Very odd that she would phrase herself as a "perfect" pet owner, very loving pet owner....that's how she views herself....and this Pit was now (minimally) the second aggressive dog she has raised? I mean....connect the dots, why don't you. It can be VERY frustrating, but if you think of not only the dogs life but all the dogs they will own in the future, being very patient and just trying to get people to SEE sometimes is really worth it. Whereas if you start out telling people they are cruel, when they "know" they are not, do not view themselves in such a way, they may immediately stop listening. And then the dogs don't get helped, you know? So when it really tests your patience to have to endure this sort of ignorance and idiocy, just remember that either their dog or a dog in their future is really relying on you to stick it out and make a difference.

That's a lot like Jackson Galaxy and his show I've been mentioning. I have spent so many years being frustrated at my cats climbing on top of everything, knocking things over. It's seemed like such an annoying behavior to me. But he really has helped me see that cats need territory a lot more than dogs do (and why) and that height is really important to them (and why). So I see things totally different now. That annoying clearing of the top of my bureau for all these years has been cats simply looking for ways to compensate for what I was failing to give them. I mean, I've always known they like height, but never really grasped the critical reasons

So sometimes, it is about turning a light bulb on wink
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Jackson Tan

Lad about town
 
 
Barked: Sun Jan 20, '13 3:35pm PST 
That gave me the jeebies. Maybe because I don't have a resource guarder and so that kind of serious reaction is something I never see, so that's scary to me on its own, but with the leg biting as well ... it's not something I'd want around kids. It does look like he's in full control of the leg and he's making a conscious decision to attack it though. I wonder how the behaviour started or if it's just like some nervous tic?
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