Public Access at public state funded university

The Service and Therapy Dog forum is for all service and therapy dogs regardless of whether or not their status is legally defined by federal or state law, how they are trained, or whether or not they are "certified." Posts questioning or disputing a person's need for a service or therapy dog, the validity of a person's service or therapy dog, or the dog's ability to do the work of a service or therapy dog are not permitted in this forum. Please keep discussions fun, friendly, and helpful at all times.

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Jake Earned- his wings- 10.02.15

I am Murphy's- Law Embodied! <3- Me!
Barked: Thu Feb 23, '12 8:21pm PST 
I have a question about Jake and Public Access once he completes his PSD training.

My university states that only dogs used for "educational instruction and guide dogs" are allowed to enter campus buildings. But all dogs are allowed to walk about campus.

A lot of students brings their dogs and just tie them up outside of the class rooms with water.

But i have a question about jake's ability to come with me into classrooms and such after his training is 'complete'. Since he's being owner trained.

Will he have public access rights after his training is done? My Therapist (who's an MD and can prescribe medications) has given me a letter stating jake's purpose.

Should i take this matter up with the Disabled Student services at my university?

The Boy Wonder
Barked: Thu Feb 23, '12 8:37pm PST 
Yes owner trained dogs have the same rights as any other service dog as long as they qualify as a service dog as per the ADA regulations. You do need to talk to your disability aid on campus to get paperwork started though because sometime you have to fight more than others.

Barked: Thu Feb 23, '12 10:33pm PST 
Will he have public access rights after his training is done?

Sometimes, an outdated policy document will mention "guide dogs" specifically, but what they really mean is "service animal". But, their policy is not relevant unless it is MORE permissive than the ADA protections.

You can take your dog, if:
- you have a disability (a condition that substantially limits one or more major life activities)
- your dog is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for you
- the work or task your dog has been trained to provide is directly related to your disability
- your dog's sole function is not to provide comfort or emotional support

If each of these conditions is true, then you can take your dog regardless of what the school's policy may be.

Here's a funny thing about universities though. For some reason, they seem to be conspicuously lagging on this subject. They tend to believe that they can impose their own restrictions and conditions. I'm not sure why this is, but I work in academics and have found that universities often have silly policies that are not consistent with the ADA. I've never had a problem, but I've seen some odd policies.

When I contacted the University of Washington's Disability Resource Services, they told me that I needed to come in and provide documentation of my disability and the need for a SD, and that they would provide me with a document that I could show to staff and faculty to prove that I had a "pass" to take my dog with me. I ignored this (since it is an illegal policy) and have never had a problem.

Yeah, I should probably get around to getting them to change their policy, but it is irrelevant anyway, so there's not much point.


The Boy Wonder
Barked: Fri Feb 24, '12 8:08am PST 
Actually no... Access in classrooms and other non public areas of any school campus fall under a completely different part of the ADA than we normally talk about. I don't have the web links on this computer or I would link you, but I trust someone else will come along with you.

The long and short of it is that they Can require documentation from you on your disability. They can't ask your exact disability but they can ask how it affects you and how a service dog will help you. The same applies to service dogs in a place of employment.

Work hard; Play- harder.
Barked: Mon Feb 27, '12 10:05am PST 
I'm going to say something that may seem a bit harsh, but at this point needs to be said.

According to multiple posts in the Snoops Dogster group and several other Dogster forums, you've had this dog roughly 5 months (end of Sept according to your previous posts), he has a slew of issues including major SA and a cervical spine/back condition that is to be managed , as needed, via pain control, yet affects his exercise tolerance, gets overwhelmed around kids, and even though he has been through some obedience work, he still ran off (a typical Beagle trait) after slipping his collar last weekend. You've been taking him into “public” as far back as December where he has shown issues with barking at other dogs; way to early for even a well balanced prospect. This dog is NOWHERE near ready to be vested (your other thread) or even going to class with you. For most people, this is, at best a pet, at most an ESA, NOT a SDIT or even a prospect.

At best, you are putting the cart before the horse; there is a reason most of us say get a CGC before taking one out in public.... it gives you time to know your dog and what it is really will do in most situations.

There is a reason you don't see very many Beagles as Assistance/Service Dogs. With Labs and Goldens you may find 1:10; with most hounds, it's literally 1:10,000 or more. In literal thousands of Beagles I've worked with/ had my hands on in the last nearly 20 years, I've been around a handful that would make it as prospects. From everything you've posted, this dog is nowhere near ready and you are seriously rushing things.

You've stated that those in your college/university classes question what you are doing with him.... ever thought that maybe it is because they either see behavior issues you are overlooking or know of his other issues? They raise huge questions.

Guide dogs, the- ones others- emulate
Barked: Mon Feb 27, '12 11:52am PST 
Scooter: Good call. Such is the fallacy of "owner training" when one has not done the proper research and studies combined with an emotional attachment to a breed of dog which is not suited to service work.
But, the law as written allows it, so the reputation of true professional service dog trainers and handlers takes another hit.
C'est la vie.
Jake Earned- his wings- 10.02.15

I am Murphy's- Law Embodied! <3- Me!
Barked: Mon Feb 27, '12 4:12pm PST 
To Scooter:

Yes Jake has had a lot of health problems. But he's no longer on pain medications and has made a recovery of sorts. His back hasn't been acting up and he's living the life of a normal dog. He plays, he runs, he jumps. he's passed all his wellness x-rays.

His SA was extremely difficult but with the help of a behaviorist he's much better. IT ended up being putting him in the crate was setting him off. I leave him home alone outside of the crate and he just sleeps or plays with his toys. His reactivity to other dogs has decreased to where he wants to just sniff now. He may whine a bit but it's scaled down from the full on barking he'd been doing. We're still in obedience training and the only "public access" we do is at open air malls which allow dogs anyway. I don't say his as a SD if i got a restaurant. He sits outside the patio like every other dog while i'm inside the patio eating. I use these places to test his progress. So far he's done well in ignoring other dogs and focusing on me. He will still eat food if its dropped off the table. But a leave it will make him hesitate though i know he has to totally ignore it.

He's doing much better but isn't anywhere near ready to be vested. I wanted to know about vesting so that when it was time and he was ready. And I would know exactly what to do when it came to ordering the right patches and vests. Jake hasn't finished advanced obedience yet but he's come a long way. He doesn't even have his CGC. THis post doesn't say it but a few other's i've left around here do say he doesn't have it yet and we're still in obedience school to obtain it.

This post also says clearly in my stated qustion: After his training is complete. Nowhere does it say his training is anywhere near complete nor finished. I asked this question to know if jake would have the right when his training was done.

I'm sorry if my posts made it seem like i was rushing out to grab a vest tomorrow and put him in a class room next week. He's not ready for that. He is just in training right now to be a good dog.

I say he's a PSDit because he reacts to my Psychiatric disability. But he doesn't not own a vest that says PSD or service dog. He does own a vest for when it rains but its a regular vest i bought at petsmart. ANd he rarely wears any type of clothing in public. If he's lucky its a back pack that has water bottles in it or his food. I have never passed him off as a service dog and will not do so should he never be a full fledge PSD even though in CA SDiT have rights. If he's never ready for public access then he's never ready. He won't be a PSD.

I was simply gathering information for that in a year or so when he finishes all his training including his CGC which he may be ready for as early as August but probably not before that then i would know what to do.

Jake's not ready now but he has time. The average training from what i read is two years. I've had jake about 6 months. And didn't even realize he was reacting to my mood swings or alerting me to them until January. I thought he was just acting weird before I fell into a bout of depression that left me in bed for days.

And if it all falls through and he never gets over his reactivity in public to other dogs. Then he can be an ESA. Someone gave stats on here before that not every dog can do it. If he can't he can't. I'm just information gathering to know what to do in the event he can.

I got jake to be a pet and he just happens to be good at alerting me to my mood swings and helps me come out of delusions i fall into in a manic state. Or getting me out of bed when i'm so depressed that getting up and doing anything doesn't seem worth it. If he can only do it at home that's fine.

But for now I will continue with his training to see if he can be a PSD.

As for my friends and colleagues. They question why i care so much. when i said he had to almost have an expensive surgery or that I paid almost 1000 dollars in a weekend for his E-vet bills, xrays, medications. When i left work early to go home and nurse him to give him medicine every 8 hours. They almost all said why didn't i just put him down. That's what i meant by them questioning my actions with Jake. And those that were happy i kept him alive ask why I spend $$$ on training classes to make him better instead of spending that money on window tinting, car upgrades, make up, clothes or going out with them to drink (Which i can't do heavily because of my medication anyway). Or when he did go through a door that first weekend i had him why didn't i take him back. They question why Jake has a wellness plan and health insurance.

They don't question why i want him to help me with my disability they question why i care so much about "this dog". most of them don't even call him by his name. He's just a dog to them. Why i didn't just get rid of him when he caused me problems.
Jake Earned- his wings- 10.02.15

I am Murphy's- Law Embodied! <3- Me!
Barked: Mon Feb 27, '12 4:48pm PST 
Also forgot to add now that i hope i've cleared up that Jake isn't getting a vest or coming onto campus anytime soon.

Jake loves kids. He visits special needs kids and puts up with their antics, ear pulling, tail stepping, shouting and their form of petting which seems to be hitting him on the head. Of course i stop them from hurting and show how to pet correctly but he puts up with children just fine. Jake loves to play with my nieces and nephews as well as the random kid at the dog park.

And Last Weekend was not when jake slipped his collar. That was back in January that that event happened. And yes he pulled out of his collar and took off after a scent but since then he's been in a harness and we haven't have any problems. When he walks in his back pack or harness he smells the area around me but otherwise does not drift off. If i drop the leash he tends to stay with me and then will come over to me.

And as i said we go out in public to walk. I walk jake in public places. Like out door malls. Just like other people walk their dogs. I take him with me to walkathons and to the beach. All those things are public out door places. I've never taken him to an indoor place that didn't allow dogs.

So please just wanted to add. If you think he's not ready. Then we are in agreement he's not. And i never in any post said he was.

So your words aren't harsh. But they are a bit misleading in the information you put out there. But i'm okay with that because it's not going to deter me from trying to train jake to help me.

@ Roanna- Your dog is very pretty. I just wanted to let you know. I do love jake. And i am attached to him. But he stays at home away from me for 8-10 hours a day. Just fine. And i do not like all beagles. I like jake. I like some beagles. But i didn't not choose him because he was only a beagle. I liked his character. And should he not be suited for service work as i said before that's fine. He can be a pet. And i can stay on these strong medications that mess with my liver and personality in such high does that everyone says i'm a different person. That make me so numb i can't even smile when really nice things happen to me.

And I also do not like that you said "true professional service dog trainers and handlers takes another hit." I find that offensive. Since i have never once passed jake off as a service dog. Ever. And your words have HURT me. Since i'm trying to make sure i do everything right.

Because I work hard to make sure i do not offend anyone or give a false presentation of my dog or myself. So i hope you ask instead of judging solely on the words of others in the future you ask for clarification yourself. Because it was really unkind and not fair to judge me or my character that way.
Samson- Service Dog, TD, CGC

More Loyal Every- Day
Barked: Mon Feb 27, '12 5:45pm PST 
Jake don't worry too much about strong minded posts. I know from personal experience that when I read a thread that is not directed towards me I find the posters to be pretty nonaggressive but as soon as they are directed at me I feel like the poster is yelling at me. It's hard to know how the poster is speaking, all a matter of situation I suppose.

Anyways, I would highly suggest going to your disability resource center at your school because as another poster on dogster has found out the road to being accepted on campus with a psych service dog can be a very long and difficult one with lots of hoops to jump through. However another poster has also mentioned that her school is allowing her ESA to come to class with her. I hope your school will be accepting and accomodating. Be prepared with lots of documentation and reasoning for the accomodation you are requesting.

Good luck with your new journey and keep your head up, there will be mean things said and comments made by the public but just remember your well-being is worth it!
Jake Earned- his wings- 10.02.15

I am Murphy's- Law Embodied! <3- Me!
Barked: Mon Feb 27, '12 6:21pm PST 
@ samson:

Thank you. I know i shouldn't take it to heart but it's just so idk...

I mean Scooters information is true. Except I got jake in October. It's just the way it was presented was not truthful. And I've never misrepresented myself or Jake because I know it would lead to a false perception of true SD be they school or owner trained and a SD or a PSD or alert dog.

That's why i've been so active here so suddenly. I want to make sure that all my ducks are in a row so to speak. So that when it comes time should that time come that jake can get a vest that I've done everything right.

Thank you for your words. I will talk with my disabled student services and see what they say.
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