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Multiple seizures

This forum is for dog lovers seeking everyday advice and suggestions on health-related issues. Remember, however, that advice on a public forum simply can't be a substitute for proper medical attention. Only your vet can say assuredly what is best for your dog.

  
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Fred

I love the sound- of my own voice
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 26, '11 11:15am PST 
Fred, bloodhound, age 4
Had 2 seizures on July 16 2011 went 8 days and had another one July 25th 2011.
Diagnosed with epilepsy - Grand mal seizures

Fred has been on the same flea/heartworm and grain free high quality kibble for the last 3 years.

I have a bloodwork up on Fred done through Antech that is local. Everything was in the normal range except his thyroid was a 1.0 which is normal on the low end but my vet felt that Fred should be above 2.0 atleast. I started him on thyroid medicine 7 days ago. I only had a T4 done at this time cause I had no idea about getting a 6panel thyroid done. Im all new to to this and this was the first blood work up ive done on Fred.

Fred has his seizures in the very early morning. Since he has had 3 in 8 days we are starting him on a low does of Phenb, Im aware of the liver issues and we will check him often with blood test. I've read through forum after forum and printed out the epi angels information that relates to my issues.

I have the house seizure proofed and we have a plan in action along with a kit that has everything we need when he seizes.

My question is does anybody use valium rectally for their seizing dog? I've thought about adding it to my seizure kit but im a little nervous. His seizures do last close to 5 mins and the nearest EC is 21 mins away and not to mention I couldnt load Fred myself if he was seizing.

Im also looking for signs of hope with this horrifying disease.

Im over whelmed right now, scared and I would have to say sad. This is all new to me but have learned so much in the last 8 days.

Im also really considering going ahead and adding melatonin with the Phenobarbital since he doesnt seem to have seizures that are related with stress or enviroment - its when he is in a deep sleep.

My food doesnt contain BHA and so forth I have checked his kibble for those 3 ingredients and we cant feed raw.

I will look at natural remedies down the road but at this time I feel comfortable with medication.

Thank you and I welcome any sucess stories!! Im still shocked over witnessing 3 seizures and this coming out of the blue. Please tell me it gets better watching them go through this?!
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(retired)min- ister misty

be calm, dont- worry!
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 26, '11 11:49am PST 
well i don't have dogs that have epelepsy.
but i myself have the disease and yes i have valium capsules in the house atall time.
it helps to relax me musles while in the seizure and it helps me ...
talk to your vet about it.
it can be good for fred to have it and i maybe save his life one day.
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Fred

I love the sound- of my own voice
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 26, '11 12:01pm PST 
Im assuming you give the valium pills after the first seizure? There is no way I could get him to take the pill while he is seizing and then my vet was worried he would choke on it. So you just use it afterwards?
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Nakita Mae- Angel Girl

Live to dock- dive!
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 26, '11 12:18pm PST 
So sorry you are going through this with your beautiful bloodhound, seizures can be so upsetting.
I am surprised that your Vet has put your pup on thyroid meds with a low/normal of 1.0. Did they do a full endrocrine panel (free T4, T3 and TSH) or was it just a part of his regular chemistry screen? Curious as T4's are not a full picture of the thyroid function and can vary from time to time even without meds.
Did your dog have the seizures before starting thyroid meds? Too high a dose of thyroid can trigger seizures along with a whole bunch of different problems such as aggitation, restlessness and aggression just to name a few.
Has your dogs T4 been rechecked since he has started on thyroid meds? And if so was it midway after his morning does and at least 2 weeks after starting the meds.
Standard Process has a great supplement for dogs with thyroid problems, works well especially with the low/normal dogs. It is called Canine Endrocrine Support. More and more Vets are using Standard Process products.
Acupuncture has been successfully used to help with seizures, the acupuncture staples are placed in the ears which helps with seizures.
Rectal valium is used to help dogs come out of the seizure quickly, you do not want to give a dog anything by mouth if they are seizuring this could be dangerous for you as well as the dog.
Your Vet can make up prefilled syringes with appropriate dosage instructions for you to follow, these can be kept on hand in case of a seizure lasting for longer periods. It works well when used properly.
It will pretty much zonk your pup but then they recover quite rapidly.
I do hope you can figure what works and your pup can be seizure free.
dog
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Fred

I love the sound- of my own voice
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 26, '11 12:46pm PST 
Nakita,

Thank you for your response and kind words. I was suprised too that we got put on thyroid medicine but he felt it was probably the cause of Freds seizure and he really feels that Freds should be higher. I think also he was just willing to see if thyroid meds would help since this came out of the blue. Fred had 2 seizures then we did bloodwork and got put on thyroid meds and then he seized again after being on the thyroid meds 7 days later. I had no education in reagrds to bloodwork when Fred seized, the vet said that he wanted to do a full blood work up which now seeing hte test results meant everything was checked (organs and so forth) but only a T4 was done. Do you think its worth the money for a 6 panel thyroid? He will be doing a 6 panel on Fred after 6 weeks of being on the thyroid meds - he did ask me to bring Fred in 4 hours after giving the morning dose.

I will keep a note about Standard Process supplement for thyroid issues.

I will look into acupuncture once we get his seizures stabilized hopefully on phenb - he will be getting 100mg twice a day - Fred weighs just at 100 pds.

My vet offered me the rectal valium or a shot to give inter muscular but the epi angels site recommends the rectal valium which has the best results. Im glad to hear you feel that the rectal valium works well. From what I understand you dont want pre filled syringes unless they are glass syringes - something with the valium being oily or so forth. I understand I have to get the liquid valium, tom cat cath, vaseline and go for it. Do you use the rectal vlaium every time your dog seizes or just if it last too long?
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Rocket

Rocket Dog!
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 26, '11 1:25pm PST 
hughughughughughug Lots of hugs for you guys, seizures can be so scary.


Rocket has epilepsy, but he is not medicated for it nor do we have valium at the house because his seizures are very infrequent and very short (usually less than two minuets,) and we live within ten minuets of an E-Vet. However, I do want to get valium eventually to have in a first aid kit for him.

Valium Information Source: http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/OralandRectalProtocol .htm

From what I understand of the Valium, it is to be used when the seizure has gone over four minuets, or if your dog is having clusters of seizures (one after another) given either rectally or with an injection, in order to stop the seizure. (Because at that point of time the dog runs the risk of suffocating.) You want to give it during the seizure so you can stop the seizure and prevent any damage. I have read that the rectally administered valium is much easier, because its hard for people to know where/how to give the injection if they aren't trained to do so. And when a dog is having a seizure, with all the muscle movement and the adrenaline from you being scared making your hands shaky makes it that much harder. A rectal capsule is much easier to place, and if you mess up you just place it back in again. (For lack of a better term...)


And your dog can still live a long, happy, healthy life, even with seizures.hug With Rocket, we just made a few adjustments, we have him in a seizure proof room when he is not being supervised, we do not feed him any wheat or products with rosemary in it, and we keep a journal of all his seizure activity and all of the environmental factors and changes surrounding it, which is VERY important to do. (But it sounds like you guys already do these things. smile )


I got my information from this site, and a dogster linked it to me after I posted about Rocket's seizures, it has been very helpful in understanding how to help out Rocket and very hopeful knowing that he is going to be ok. smile

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/site_map.htm
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Fred

I love the sound- of my own voice
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 26, '11 1:37pm PST 
Rocket,

Thank you so much for your response and my heart goes out to you and your owner as well. Its a scary thing to go through for us humans and the our sweet babies.

Thank you for clarifying the use of the valium. I think my brain was on over load with all the research and data ive been collecting. I love the epi angels website that was my first place to go to. We are 21 mins by car away from an EC so its wise for us to have the valium on hand in case of an emergency with Fred. Im going to use the pills for after and the rectal for during if it goes on too long. Freds normally last around the good 3-5 min range. Again he has only have 3 in 8 days so not as severe as soon but severe enough to warrant action.

Do you use rescue remedy after? if so how does it work for you?
Do you use melatonin? if so how does it work for you?
I do give Fred natural vanilla ice cream after to bring up his blood sugar. I also have 2 one gallon zip lock bags in the freezer with ice to put on his back during a seizure to keep him from over heating. I have a seizure ready kit with his journal, phone numbers, towel, Rescue remedy and instructions with me to grab when it happens.

Im so glad to hear Rocket is doing so well. I hope to get Fred there one day!
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Rocket

Rocket Dog!
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 26, '11 3:46pm PST 
We haven't used rescue remedy, but I'll definitely look into it! We do the scoop of vanilla icecream, and we have several bags of frozen vegetables in the freezer that we use as an icepack for him.

Currently we aren't on any medication at all for his seizures, the vet didn't feel that his epilepsy was severe enough to warrant medication. He has had a total of three seizures, the first two were six months apart, and this last one he had a week ago was a year apart from the one prior to it. After his seizure we just hold the icepack to him, give him the ice cream when he seems like he can swallow again, then give him a shower to cool him off as well as clean him off since he loses all bowel/bladder control. He usually recovers fully after about 15-20 mins.
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Adam

Vaccine free- -Disease free- goes pawinpaw
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 26, '11 4:27pm PST 
The problem with valium is that it increases the severity of seizures over time, and increases the chance they won't respond to valium. So only use for clusters/grandmals lasting over 5 minutes.

Rescue remedy had absolutely no effect on my dog when she had epilepsy, not for the seizure itself or for the post/pre time, but other owners have said they notice it helps. Ice cream or honey believe it or not may also help if you can feed it before or right after a seizure.

Melatonin also helps decrease and for some even entirely stopped seizures especially late night or early morning ones.

Ice packs put on the upper-middle of the dog's back (like between the shoulders) is also said to be effective in helping reduce the severity of a seizure when you see pre signs.

Try the yahoo group k9epilepsy for more help! They are open to all treatment genres, which there are alot of out there.

There IS hope. My dog was CURED of epilepsy through homeopathy. Hers were induced by over vaccination (of course genetics played a role too, but they didn't manifest until her vaccines triggered or hurt her health) The problem is, from what I read about homeopathy, is it's very hard for owners to do it because most homeopaths want your dog off all conventional medication and that means there is a period where the seizures are worse. Homeopathy isn't your only hope though. There are goldbead implants, amino acid therapy, laser therapy, acupuncture, thyroid therapy etc that have stopped seizures in dogs without needing any more conventional medication.

What I don't feel has hope is the use of only conventional medication. It breaks my heart when I read owners who's dogs have been on phenobarb, kbr, etc for years trying different combinations and doses, lowering this, raising that, changing this and that, and the dog keeps having seizures..maybe after a month, maybe a year. A body needs to be healthy to fight this disease, and the side effects of these drugs are sadly toll taking. Holistic health must be combined, or dogs continue to have seizures on the meds.

Edited by author Wed Jul 27, '11 9:01am PST

Approved by forums moderator
Isabelle RIP

Pumpkin Pie- Puppy 2009-2010
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 26, '11 9:21pm PST 
My pup Isabelle had seizures. Hers where caused by lymphoma that had spread to her brain. We always kept liquid Valium on hand. It always seemed to bring her out of them quickly.
One thing I recommend is practicing loading the syringes using water. My vet had me do this and it helped. It's a lot more difficult to do when your under pressure.
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