Stupid little child(ren)...

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Sir.- Tuxanawlden- SDIT

The Heir
Barked: Sat Apr 8, '06 8:01pm PST 
Arrggg! I really want to be mad right now but I am so thankful Tux is okay it's hard to be mad. We had several incidents on our outings today.

The first incident - we came into the local WalMart, paused, Tux waited by my side no problem. Focused in on a little kid that was assaulting a blow-up ICEE display (ICEE is like a snow cone) At one point the ICEE display fell out into the aisle and Tux focused on it, but followed my command to walk on.

Then we stopped at a drink mix display, this about 5 year old girl came RUNNING up to Tux, she grabbed his nose really hard and almost slammed it into his skull, then she took two fingers and shoved them into his eyes and clawed down his face with her fingernails, and then headed for his ears. I held him back and dropped over him in a protective manner, crying, "Please don't pet him, he's a helping dog! You need to ask before petting!" at this point my mother witnessed a parent grab the child up and take it away. I am crouched over him trying to check him, crying out for help, and the parent of the child never stopped to apologize or ask if he was okay or anything. Then this boy of about the same age came up and asked to pet him and I said fine, the boy did alright. As soon as I could I got him off to the side and checked his eyes to make sure the girl hadn't poked them out and checked his face etc. When I put him into the sit to check him and bent down he immediately went into emergency response - stimuli mode and started licking my face and nuzzling me which was positive to me as far as his survival of the incident. He still had two eyes and is actively looking around so I think he is fine (he was not fazed by the girl's treatment at all and never even opened his mouth or got aggressive) but I will openly admit that while he is fine, I am not...still pretty shook up about the incident.
Then at the same location the girl who was assaulting the ICEE comes over, no asking or anything (she was about 3) and settles down and starts petting Tux. The mother comes by and says "Oh she likes dogs." I was too shook up from the assault on Tux to combat her so I just waited until they left. Then later I got my sweet revenge on them when the mom was looking frantically for her kid (I was in no way responsible, I was at the other side of the store)...the mother had been lax about supervision for two counts (assault on ICEE, playing with Tux) and I found it fitting she had to look for her kid at that point.

Anyway...we had a few issues after that but none were as serious...it just shook me up so bad to see Tux assaulted like that and almost be in tears and have my heart racing and be unable to have anyone help me. My mom was there with me and asked if he was okay but the little kid's mother should have taken responsibility, or a store employee should have come by if they witnessed it. (I was concentrated on Tux, so I don't know who witnessed anything.)

Any suggestions what to do next time or to calm myself down? Should I have taken my eyes off of Tux to try to get description of anything? Thank goodness he did not get defensive with the kid, I wouldn't have blamed him if he did nor do I think the law would have blamed him, but I was a witness and know for a fact he did not do anything. That's really positive to me though, and so is the fact that he went right back to work and even was able to activate the emergency response mode I've been hoping to train (stimuli until next response/command).

Thanks for letting me vent. I'm gonna just get off of here and go love him for awhile...feed him from my hand and feel his licks on me and his warmth next to me...

Tux & Big Sis
Dogster HQ

Barked: Wed Apr 12, '06 4:38pm PST 
Hey dogs, this is getting a bit heated and is definitely falling a little short of fun, friendly, informational and respectiful. In light of this, we are closing the thread down.

Loved Furever
Barked: Sat Apr 8, '06 10:50pm PST 
What the frigg is wrong with people????!!!! Do you ever feel like you are the only person on the face of the earth that has any common sense or tact? I'm sure you were shook up and just wanted to get out of there, but maybe next time try to find an employee (good luck with that!) and report the incident just to have it on record.

Pjr - Super Cute- Doggie!

Barked: Sun Apr 9, '06 12:31am PST 
I'm glad that Tux is okay!

Unfortunately, that is *common* with many young kids 1->3 year olds that do not have much or any experience with a dog (or cat). They see this CUTE LOVABLE thing that is like their stuff toys. Very young kids are just learning about *others* and how to control their own body. So, in some sense, IMHO, it's hard to "blame" the *kid*.

The parent likely also isn't aware of how some/many kids treat dogs cats when the lids are learning. So, it's "hard" to blame the parent for *not caring*. Many times, it's because the parent does not know.

So, the doggies mom/dad HAS to be careful when their fur-kid is is near *any* young kid that is a "stranger". Is that kid "afraid of dogs"? Does that kid have *any* experience with dogs? And, so on.

Pjr is a SUPER FRIENDLY Springer (aren't they all? laugh out loud. Plus, Pjr has those "I'm so lovable and FRIENDLY" Springer eyes. So, over the years, a TON of young kids have been attracted to Pjr. I think that Pjr attracts young kids more than an Ice Cream truck or a Chucky Cheese Pizza place. smile

Like you, the first time, I was like what??? Then, after talking with the kid and parent I learned that Pjr was the first doggie that this 2 year old was attracted to and wanted to play with. It was also the parent's first kid.

After that, I was always SUPER careful with Pjr near kids. It was NOT because of Pjr. Pjr is a *true* field-bred Springer. She would *never ever bite* - NEVER! But, it's the young kids I worry about. When I see a young kid come near Pjr (Pjr loves EVERYONE!), I get close to the kid and make SURE the kids "plays" nice. Of course, over the past 15 years, Pjr has taken a NUMBER of hits, slaps, pokes, from young kids. As Pjr got older, I became more protective of Pjr. If the kid is young, I'll hold the kids hand while they pet Pjr. An Older dog can't handle a young kid pushing, holding, grabbing, being sat-on as well as a younger dog.

I think that both Pjr and I are proud of the young kids that we've helped over the years to learn about how to properly treat a doggie.

So, to sum up, it's likely that no-one was "fully" to blame. You likely had a very young with limited/no experience with dogs, a parent with no experience, and you without the experience. Yes, there are a VERY FEW *mean* kids. And, you must protect your fur-kid from them. But, over the years, I've seen the vast majority be because of inexperienced kids. If the young kid REALLY wanted to hurt the dog, they would _kick_ it or _punch_ it (with a *closed* fist). If you don't see those behaviors in a young kid, then there's a good chance that they are likely inexperienced with dealing with dogs.

Pjr and I have seen 8->11 year olds that didn't know how to properly pet or handle dogs. Their parents may not like or trust dogs. When they visit some of Pjr's younger human friends and then Pjr stops by, I can see the "confusion", *EXCITEMENT*, and sometimes fear when they first get to "really" pet a dog. That *excitement* can cause the kids to be too rough.

Hope the above helps. Sorry that Tux had to go through that. But, IMHO, anytime a cute dog is near young inexperienced kids, that can happen. I'm sure that Tux looked cute, friendly, and lovable when the kid saw Tux.

Edited by author Wed Apr 12, '06 11:49am PST


Born to hug
Barked: Sun Apr 9, '06 2:15am PST 
I've been known to have "accidents" with my shopping cart around kids like that... *evil grin*
Sabrina- 2000~2012

To break- injustice we- must break- silence
Barked: Sun Apr 9, '06 8:07am PST 
Oh Tux that's so horrible! I always try to stear clear of little kids when I can!

I think you did the right thing worrying about Tux first and not worrying about getting descriptions of anyone or anything like that. You can always ask afterwards if other people around saw anything and get them to go with you to the store manager to complain! I'm glad Tux wasn't hurt!

What I usually say to little kids who do that stuff is "no petting, she's a working dog..... (then this part really loud so the parent can her) DIDN'T YOUR PARENTS TEACH YOU MANNERS? IT IS VERY VERY RUDE TO PET ANY DOG WITHOUT ASKING, ESPECIALLY A WORKING DOG... YOU CAN GET BITTEN AND IT WOULD BE ALL YOUR MOM OR DADS FAULT"

I figure that way at least I've informed the parents that their kid was being rude and that I and others will blame them (the parent) for this.

Hope your next outing goes a little better!

Loved Furever
Barked: Sun Apr 9, '06 3:13pm PST 
Pjr......I'm not sure if you failed to notice Tux say that the child's mom did not bother to offer an apology or ask Tux's mom if she was OK. I guess this is what irked me. Some people have no manners or tact. In my opinion there is someone to blame and that is the parent. Where was she anyway? She just lets her young child wander around a huge store? Talk about great parenting. It's one thing for a child to do something she shouldn't, they may not know any better, it's something different when the parent, who KNOW'S BETTER does not offer an apology or assistance to someone who may need it.

Anytime you- can...run, run,- run!!!
Barked: Sun Apr 9, '06 3:26pm PST 
See, I would have sooo told the mother to get her child away from the dog and told her what she had done.
People that do not watch their kids around animals kill me and I am not affraid to say anything anymore.
I know you were stressed but you really need to start standing up to these people.
Poor Tux, but it sounds like he handled it better than mom didsmile

Play! Play!- Play!
Barked: Sun Apr 9, '06 5:57pm PST 

Those two girls (and their parents) just sound unresponsible more then being kids. That first girl really could have hurt Tix doing that kind of thing (Ringo was). My mom, just being her, would've complained to both parents and the management but how appropriate that would've been is a different story.
Pjr - Super Cute- Doggie!

Barked: Sun Apr 9, '06 7:30pm PST 
>Pjr......I'm not sure if you failed to notice
>Tux say that the child's mom did not bother
>to offer an apology or ask Tux's mom if she was OK.
Yes, the kids mom *should* have apologized. IMHO, that's *not* what *I* am concerned about. That type of stuff *will* happen.

If mom saw a "regular" person with a dog in a *public place* and if the mom does not like dogs, she would see Tux and Tux's guardian *in fault*.

Offering Tux and Tux's guardian sympathy and understanding is fine! *I* care more about *trying to prevent* a similar situation with Tux or others reading this thread.

Having a Springer (aka a kid magnet smile and living near a middle school, I'm familiar with "new" kids meeting a lovable dog.

I also noticed that it *seems* that Tux is a service dog in training. I live a few blocks from a middle-school. Because of the kids, initially I kept away when the kids were there (i.e. daytime summer).

I look at the "reality" of things. In reality, Very Few kids have dogs at home. In reality, young kids often get VERY excited when they get to play with a dog. In reality, I'd say that 99.99% of the people don't even have a clue about the training of Service dogs. And, so on.

Over ~15 years, I've seen many kids "that should have known better", RUN up to Pjr and not have a *clue* on how to play with a dog. I hate to say it, but if someone brings their fur-kid in public, they *must* be careful of kids!

I'm concerned that someone that is responsible for a fur-kid and does not have a lot of experience with dogs meeting *new* kids, *expects* kids "to know how to act". I know that *I* did the same until I learned!

Thankfully, Pjr is a typical Springer and NEVER EVER bites. But, MOST DOGS BITE! So, you have the possibility of bad situation of an excited kid playing rough with a dog and getting bitten. Or, in the case of Labs, being pushed to the ground - 100lb dog vs 40lb kid, a Lab can *easily* "roughly" push a young kid as the Lab tries to get away from the kid.

Yea, the kid and mom where BOTH *VERY* WRONG! I 100% agree with that! I'm VERY sorry that happened to Tux. My *guess* is if Tux was operating as a REAL service dog helping someone (such as a limited sight person), then the mom would have stopped the kid very quickly and/or apologized.

As it was, the mom likely saw a "regular" person with a dog in a *public place*. If the mom does not like dogs, she would see Tux and Tux's guardian *in fault*. Like I said, I'd be willing to bet that less than 1 in 10,000 people even know about the training of Service dogs. So, don't be so fast "to throw stones" at either the mom or the kid.

Over the years, I've seen that many times, it's the lack or knowledge and experience of dogs (by both the parents and kids) that leads to what happened to Tux.

I want Tux's guardian and OTHERS to be careful and *not* to "expect" that "all parents and kids" know about dogs.

BTW: I have the UTMOST respect and ADMIRATION for those that teach Service dogs.

Edited by author Sun Apr 9, '06 7:45pm PST

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