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Shiba male with "mixed signals" around other males

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Takuma

Trouble!		 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 18, '11 5:31pm PST 
So my dear Takuma is a 3 1/2 year old male who gets along horribly well females, and less well with males. So nothing truly surprising so far. The issue however comes from how he acts when he's around other male dogs, and I'd like to find a way that can allow him to get along with them.

For starters, there's the scenario that really doesn't work. Him and another male inside a house. Takuma likes to make it clear that he owns everything, even the things he really don't care for, so any forgotten treat in the corner, bowl of water or the chair he had never even noticed before might trigger an argument. This is however avoidable since I don't really need to have him running around inside with other males. Running off leash outside with other male dogs works quite well though.

And it should also be mentioned he gets along just fine with neutered males in any sort of setting (so far, knock on wood).

The problem occurs when he's leashed and we encounter other males on our walks. The moment he spots them he'll usually go "OOOH! DOG!" and see if he can persuade me to let him greet it. How this would proceed if it's another male would be this:
Takuma jogs up to the other dog (not rushing) and stops face-to-face, either freezing or if it lets him, he'll proceed to sniff around a bit.
At some point he'll freeze completely though, and the second the other male tries to get the scent of him he'll lash out for it.

After this happened a few times as he got older I decided "Hey, know what? We'll just saying hi to those dogs then". I do however stop to talk to the owners at times and we keep the dogs with a few yards between them, so far so good. This is where it gets odd after a while though. As Takuma will switch back and forth between grumbling and snarling at the other male, and suddenly let out playful barks, wave his front legs at it, invite it to play and do what I can only assume is a post-modern interpretation of a pack of geese hitting a jet-engine.

So it boils down to this; has anyone experiencing anything similar with their shiba, and/or have any suggestions on how to proceed? Seeing him at least partially show signs of wanting to get all social with the other male does motivate me to work on it. But the point where it will go freeze/snap is usually where the other male tries to inhale his scent.
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Kaida

Official Shiba- Squirrel Tracker		 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 18, '11 10:43pm PST 
Shibas are very choosey when it comes to letting other dogs smell them. Kaida will NOT let another dog sniff her if she is on a leash. She freaks out, gets mad, moody, tries to hide, you name it she's done it. Off leash she is a wonderful play partner. She loved going to the dog park when we lived close to one. She doesn't however like meeting dogs on walks.
Something about being on a leash makes the dogs feel threatened or dangered. Ones that are iffy toward other dogs tend to lash out or respond negatively. We as owners need to remember to reinforce the good behavior and what you expect from them while avoiding situations or pulling them away from situations that are against what we want in reactions. If you notice he is tense or in any type of aggressive stance, you need to distract him or take him away. If he reacts in a good way, encourage him and progress to the next step whether it be get closer or allow them to play.
Some male dogs do not like unaltered dogs I think because of hormones and different scents about them. Kaida is a little weird in the fact that she doesn't respond as well to a nonfixed female as she does to a spayed one.
Also Do NOT under any circumstances verbally correct him for growling or barking as a warning to another dog or person. This teaches him that the noise is bad, but the reaction is ok. It will make him a silent "attacker" so to speak. I was told this bit of information and it really makes sense.

So to make things short:
1. Watch his reactions closely and you need to react accordingly BEFORE things get to the aggressive or defensive point.
2. Be sure to avoid situations or immediately remove him from them if or when things cross the correct or comfort line.
3. Encourage positive reactions and don't scold him for negative ones, just keep those from happening by watching his signs.

I hope this helps you and I am sure others who work with fosters or have had this experience has more to add.
Remember too it may not be possible to fully trust him with another male dog, but you can try. If he has mixed responses all the time, I would play it safe and not set him up for potential failure.
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Takuma

Trouble!		 
 
Barked: Sun Oct 16, '11 3:48pm PST 
First of all a belated thank you for the advice.

And then for the update: Takuma has been oddly nice around other males recently. Going for walks with our family dog during our vacation, and even playing around with a doberman (Takuma was off the leash). No signs of aggression at all, but the doberman did get pretty grumpy in the end as he could never quite catch the furry lightning darting around.

I'm still not 100% relaxed with other males around though, as I don't know the result if some cute husky girl walks past or they both decide that ball over there must absolutely and without doubt be secured in the name of the motherland.

This leads me to consider using a muzzle if I take him to the nearby dog parks. Or rather, see if I can through positive reinforcement make the muzzle "ok" to wear, first for a few seconds, then minutes at a time. I have no experience with these contraptions however, so I'd love to hear if this is something that could backfire or might be a actually be a safe way to gauge how he deals with others without risking him injuring someone.
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Kaida

Official Shiba- Squirrel Tracker		 
 
Barked: Mon Oct 17, '11 11:28am PST 
I think if you used a muzzle at the park or something some owners would react negatively before they even heard your reasoning. Not to mention he may get more defensive, being afraid and knowing he can't defend himself if another dog would happen to attack him. Honestly if you are that uncomfortable with him around other male dogs maybe you should avoid the dog park and look into maybe a play group with some female dogs or dogs you know or can trust around him.
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Takuma

Trouble!		 
 
Barked: Mon Oct 17, '11 12:40pm PST 
Valid point, so that's off the table.

I'll just stick to positive reinforcement whenever he behaves well around them, and take it slow so I can figure out what triggers his outbursts. Fingers crossed he's actually growing out of it, and the recent encounters will repeat themselves.
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Kaida

Official Shiba- Squirrel Tracker		 
 
Barked: Mon Oct 17, '11 2:51pm PST 
Its great he's having good responses. Kaida went thru a small phase like that in which she wanted no other animal around her or her things (I am considered one of her things by her lol). She realized quickly that life was more fun -lots of toys, lots of pettings from people, and playtime with other pups- she dropped thoses habits quickly. She now looks to me for comfort when she is in a situation she is uncomfortable with but she never reacts aggressively. When a strange dog is around she is nervous about she whines and paces around before eventually breaking down and trying to get it to play. Let us know how he progresses and if his signals remain toward the positive side. smile
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Takuma

Trouble!		 
 
Barked: Fri Apr 27, '12 4:36pm PST 
Just resurrecting this topic to say we have had some great progress in the past year on this issue.

Passing the 4 year mark, Takuma seems to have cooled off a bit, being a calmer dog overall, which obviously has had an impact. Mostly been practicing by making him tolerate having other male dogs nearby, often having to go for walks together without necessarily having to greet.

Also had a few occasions where unleashed males have rushed towards him, and he has refrained from starting a fight. He will growl and tell them to sod off, but in my book it is fair play that he gives the other dog clear signals that if they stick their punk nose anywhere near his rear, he'll go shogun on them.
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