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Seeing as us Elkhounds sometimes take commands more as 'suggestions' as opposed to directions. How were you trained? Positive/correction/clicker/no clicker/choke collar/prong collar...
This thread isn't meant for judgement. We just saw another thread where people were going back and fourth... We were curious, since Elkhounds are so independent and tend to need firm training, how others did it. Many people say all dogs can be trained by just positive methods but how many trainers come across Elkhounds? We know I'm the only one ours has ever had...
Mom says to control an Elkhounds barking you either have to just give up or have the patience of the Dali Lama. People think she is just bad at training when she says that, but compared to some other owners we talked to, I'm mild and I LOVE to bark. I also tend to grumble or talk back when I'm given a command but I do it. I love being an Elkhound!
Elkhounds are the best candidate when it comes to positive reinforcement. They love to please, and they love to eat. I start mine with clicker and target training. I teach heel as a position, and they are walking freely at heel before they ever see their leash and collar.
I start off with the superpuppy program, and build all the foundation blocks from there. I also am a firm Nothing In Life Is Free practitioner. The dogs get minimal basic, and have to earn anything else. Whatever they get, is based on their choices. If they want to live well, they work hard.
Obedience is a lifestyle. Every interaction with your dog is either positive training, or negative training. I plan every interaction to anticipate creating the dog I want them to be.
And every great once in awhile.. they forget, and we have a talk. But I make a contract with my dogs, so they learn they are empowered to build their own horizons. The harder they work, the greater their potential. Slackers don't get anything.
I never lie to my dogs. I never play chase them (However, i DO allow them to play chase ME!) I never call them, and then give them a bath, or trim their nails. That is betrayal of their confidence to come. I never call them to scold them. When they come, it's always positive.
I have a contract with them, that there is a time and place for everything, including exploration. I make sure they get a chance to explore the things that interest them... on THEIR time. On my time, they are to ignore distractions until I am ready to allow them investigatory time. They know they WILL be permitted.. because it'sin our contract. Therefore they are willing to give me their time, because they know i will delight them with their own time, when we are finished.
Almost ALL training is done with click/treat/bridge & target training.
But I'm not opposed to putting a pinch collar on my 2 year old intact male (twice) to get his attention. I am not strictly positive. And since he's a Search and Rescue Dog, he was developing an extraordinary interest in squirrels that was distracting him from his job. I turned him loose in a park full of squirrels, and started with an e-collar on low, and ramped it up until he responded. He got the message, and will now track by squirrels inches away, and he won't look at them. He's a tracking dog. This was important. It only took once session.
The most important thing to remember in training an elkhound is to be consistent, and fair. Only give a command once, and if the dog blows you off... fix it. Don't allow the dog to decide they don't need to obey the first command.. or was that the second? Naw, I'll wait until mommy is counting to 10 ....make that twenty...
Nope, NOT HERE! First command.. and then FIX IT. I have very obedient elkhounds. I do whatever it takes to get compliance with the least amount of force or coercion possible.
When it comes to barking.. simply don't allow it. Distract, redirect, praise.
When I used to do Elkhound rescue, I got a lot of chronic Elkhound barkers. When they barked, they got put in a crate. If they continued, the crate got covered, to remove stimulus. If they got quiet, they got released.
They are barking for attention, so I remove the object of their affections, so that it does not pay off to bark.
If they continue barking, the covered crate got moved to the basement. Lights out. If they quieted, I'd get them immediately. If not, I'd wait it out.
If they continued, they went out to the barn (this cannot be done in the city with neighbors in close proximity)
They would stay in a crate in a dark, remote stall. I'd sit vigil, and as soon as they quieted, I'd go give them food/water, petting, and if they stayed quiet, released them and we'd party. Sometimes this meant commitment of up to two-three days vigil. Reward for QUIET is critical and thus the vigil must be a committed one.
I've never had any problem barker for longer than a week, as I won't tolerate it, and we get to work to fix it.
Usually problem barkers are created by their owners within the first few days an owner gets their new puppy. The puppy barks and complains of being left, and the kindly owner rushes to their aide to console the distraught puppy. A problem barker is born.
On the average day Ursa is good about her barking in general, but it’s when we play she is a big barker. I will get her to sit and be quiet then I throw the ball or toy and she tears off barking like it’s going out of style. I've kind of given up on that, I don’t think she needs to be corrected for playing, even though on days where I have a headache and we are inside I want to slap myself...
Our trainer taught us to use NILF and it works. My only problem is, right now I am living at home with my parents until I get a full time job and they don't always understand the methods. Our previous Elkhound Missy had come to us when she was 4/5 so she was already trained. Her previous owner had unfortunately sent her to 'doggie camp' where they must have done some bad things because she hated loud noises.
After Missy died, I knew when I got my own dog it would be another Elkhound. When I moved home from school I knew my parents missed having the dog, (my dad always complained the cat wasn’t the same) but they didn’t want to be responsible for another. My fiancé spoke to my parents about buying me a dog for graduation and seeing as the dog would be moving with me when I left they said yes. They told me though so I could research, pick a breeder and get the puppy I wanted.
They don’t believe in hitting animals or anything like that, the problem is they just don't understand the training. My Dad still calls her crate 'the cage' like Ursa is a POW or something and my mom tends to be a little soft on the commands. She does make Ursa do something for every treat/reward she gives her it is just a matter of she is not as demanding that it is done correctly. Ursa however, does know that I expect more. At times I do repeat myself or she grumbles at me but she doesn’t get anything unless she does it correctly. I refuse to accept less.
I have used a pinch collar on Ursa for training, as she gets distracted by the wildlife also. At one point, around the start of obedience classes I had been at work, my mother had Ursa and took her out for a walk around the yard. In a split second Ursa ran after a squirrel, pulled my mother down and the leash got away from her. Luckily, the squirrel ran up the tree and Ursa stood to bark at it, so my mom retrieved the leash and Ursa without a problem. Now I know what some people may think, I don't make Ursa my parent’s responsibility. If I am not home, she is crated in my room unless someone wants to take her out and take care of her. She is more than happy there. If they do take her out though, or ever take care of her once we move out, I want to know that both they and Ursa are safe.
Since I am the one who trained her and takes care of her 95% of the time I know the commands as Ursa knows them. I have explained ‘down’ is lay down and ‘off’ is get off or say ‘leave it’ instead of plain old ‘NO!’ but Missy had been trained one way and this is different so they tend to revert or forget. Also for as much as you know things like stay calm if the dog gets away, don’t chase them, don’t stoop over or sound angry when you call them to come back, you panic a little anyway. For people who haven’t practiced or heard those things a million times, it is even harder to remember.
So, with the instruction of our trainer, actually he purchased and fitted it, I got a pinch collar. We only needed to 'use it' a couple of times for her to walk properly for them. Now if I am not around and they need to walk her they put it on her but on the dead ring so it won't actually 'work,' but Ursa knows it is there. We have since fenced in the yard so that is rarely a problem now.
Our trainer taught us also that 'come' should be our emergency recall and if you use it, only for good things. This command everyone has adhered to. If we are outside at night and I hear something strange (we have coyotes and bears in the area) I can call her and she actually ignores the noise and comes to me. The alternative 'let's go' to get her to come in the house or when we leave the dog park tends to be more easily ignored because she knows it’s a bummer, but I don’t think I have ever see a dog willingly leave the park…
I have never had a puppy before, but I think Ursa is a pretty good dog. I always have people asking me who our trainer is and saying how well she behaves or how different she is after the training.I happened to go into PetSmart one time and a man commented on Ursa's behavior, left then came back with a pen and paper for the trainer’s information. He always says that a dog’s success hinges on how well the owner understands and communicates to their dog, that he can take a dog, train it and give it back to the owner and it is like it never happened if they don't know how to work with the dog themselves. I just try to listen to what he tells us though. I am amazed though when he is standing in the center of the room explaining something and says ‘then tell your dog to sit’ and Ursa sits down. At that point in the class I could have been right next to her and she would probably have blown me off but she listened to him on the other side of the room.
If/when I get frustrated that Ursa is still sometimes distracted easily my trainer tells me that I am with her everyday so I don't see as easily how much she has improved. He says she is still young and she will grow out of it (I hope so) and that for as early as I did basic obedience Ursa was very well behaved. (He has a requirement a pup be 6 months before basic obedience so we had done the next available class.) We have waited at our trainer’s recommendation for advanced obedience because she still can be distracted enough without anything 'added' and we will probably take that class sometime in the summer because she is getting better. Our last walk, she had to do the cheek puffing woof at a squirrel but she did it as she was walking instead of the typical stop and bark. Finally, the fun of the walk was more important.
I just always have second thoughts about discussing training. Some people think you are prime evil if you use any correction based training. Did I find it odd my 45lb dog was being fitted for a prong while bigger dogs had buckle collars? Yes, but after he looked into it, and from working with Ursa our trainer decided that was the best way to go. He is the one who has the 10+ years experience and trains service dogs. Also, at that time, I wasn’t going to tell my parents they couldn’t take Ursa out of her crate because her leash manners were unreliable with woodland creatures around. If it ever became necessity that someone besides my fiancé or myself had to walk her we needed to know all parties involved will be ok. So, for better or worse that is how we did it. I don’t think it scarred or hurt her in anyway. She is always running around the dog park wrestling with other dogs nibbling her neck fat and I’d think that would hurt more…
We don't do any formal training for Ursula, and she's rarely disciplined. We do pull her away from our new kitten when she plays too rough.
We have recently been successful in getting her to sleep on her own bed. We have a twin mattress laying lengthwise at the foot of our king bed just for her. She always starts off on our bed so one of us has to sit on her twin bed to coax her over, and then sit with her and praise her for staying on her own bed. We do find her back on our bed some mornings, but she'll mostly spend the entire night on her own bed.
As for the barking ... we too try to distract her. We let her bark for a little bit as she's just doing her job. And most of the time she is barking at someone who she feels has gotten too close to her yard. Then I'll call her name (sometimes it takes several calls) to get her attention off of the thing that's caught her attention.
I must add, that when I'm alone in my house, I feel a lot safer with Urs around.
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He always says that a dog’s success hinges on how well the owner understands and communicates to their dog, that he can take a dog, train it and give it back to the owner and it is like it never happened if they don't know how to work with the dog themselves. I just try to listen to what he tells us though. I am amazed though when he is standing in the center of the room explaining something and says ‘then tell your dog to sit’ and Ursa sits down. At that point in the class I could have been right next to her and she would probably have blown me off but she listened to him on the other side of the room.
