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LABS LABS AND MORE LABS!!!!!!!!! » Group Forum

An Upset Resident and Food Aggression

  
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Buddy- ADOPTED!!

I don't walk - I run!		 
 
Barked: Sun Apr 26, '09 7:04pm PST 
I was directed to this group for this problem, someone thought the Frannicola's mom may have some insight for a couple of issues. This is posted in a couple of different places...never hurts to get more than one opinion ...

I will try to make this as short as possible...
I found out that an aquaintence of mine was not caring for his lab (Buddy) anywhere close to properly so I took him in.

1st Issue: As a result, Buddy has food aggression and flinches, ducks and squints his eyes quite frequently when you bring your hand down to pet him and apparently (understandably) has trust/fear issues with men. The first night I was standing about 5 feet away from his dish and got growled at. I have started hand feeding him, which is going well. My husband hand fed him this morning and tonite, we thought it would help him get over the trust issues - at least with my husband. This morning went great and so did the feeding itself tonite. My husband went over the baby gate (explained later), put his dish in the kitchen, and on his way back through reached across the gate to give him a little pet and got bit. He is OK, but we are both a little confused. We both have reached across that gate many times already to give him a little love and gotten nothing but a lick. thinking Is this food related, or past abuse related do you think? What can we do? How long do I continue the hand feeding, and what is my next step?

2nd Issue: I took Shadow & Abby to Buddy's previous home to meet. First individually, then together and everything went well. Buddy and Shadow got along VERY well and I got the expected 'get out of my business' growls from Abby, but nothing serious. I brought Buddy home and all three were in the backyard getting aquainted and everything was going GREAT! I let Buddy in the house briefly to eat then took him back outside and put him in the outdoor kennel (he is not housetrained). Friday I was home all day and we were in and out of the house all day. Shadow has decided to be a total butthead to Buddy. Never any issues outside...there is even play between the two of them, but inside is a TOTALLY differnt story. So Sat AM I was off to WalMart to buy a baby gate. They are seperated, but all have to walk through Buddy's 'room' to go outside - which there also is never any issues with - just in the livingroom. Shadow will charge the gate growling and try to bite him one minute, and walk up to the gate and do his 'playing' bark the next.
Evidently I do not have a keen enough eye to catch all of Shadow's body language. His tail is ALWAYS stiff, that is just the way his tail IS, his hackles are NEVER up, and he always walks around very stiff and posturish (is that even a word?laugh out loud )
Needless to say, I'm a little out of my league and possibly in over my head here....I know that it hasn't been very long (I just picked up Buddy on Thursday night) and that there will be an adjustment period, just wondering what, if anything, I can do to ease them (and me) through it.
Buddy is VERY attention deprived so now that he has people that pay attention to him, he wants it CONSTANTLY and splitting my time between the two areas of the house is already taking it's toll on me and Abby & Shadow.

Any suggestions or advice would be VERY welcome!
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Tucker- Frannicola

I'm the boss,- that's why!
 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 27, '09 2:42am PST 
Hi, Buddy and mom, and thanks for thinking about us in terms of being helpful. With 6 pups (all of them rescues and brought in at various times in their lives, it has been interesting here!)

How old is Buddy? Is he neutered?

When we bring in an intact male, Jake is usually the one who gets aggressive (he's actually ripped a hole in one poor dog - nothing serious, but they had to be separated). My husband is a believer in spending a lot of time with the two problem children. He likes to walk them (on leash) together (remember - your attitude transmits itself down the leash to the dogs, so if you're apprehensive, Shadow will feel it and think something is wrong). It might help to have your husband walk one and you the other. As they get along better on leash, if you have a fenced in area they can play in, let them off leash for periods of time. As far as the food agression goes - it's gonna take a while, but he'll learn to trust you. Have you fed him at the same time and in the same general area as Abby and Shadow? Is he aggressive with them, too? I'd just sit there with him and talk to him while he eats, until he realizes you're not going to steal his food. Then, maybe a day or so later, start stroking him and telling him what a good boy he is. Him watching you do the same to Shadow and Abby might also help him realize that you are the giver, not the taker of food. Is he "snappy" when you give him treats? Again, you can't let him know you are apprehensive, or you'll be in a world of trouble. Maggie was very snappy and grabby when it came to treats, and she growled every time she got fed - but that's because she was turned loose and on her own for a long time before the shelter got her and we got her. We hold a milk bone in our hand with only a little bit (maybe 1/4) showing, and tell her "easy". SHe usually takes the tip of the treat very gently. WHen she does snap at it, I pull it away, bop her on the top of the head and tell her "no" and try it again. She gets the message. I'm sorry there's no quick fix, but it does happen after awhile. Please keep us posted.

Joy (Frannicola mommy)
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Buddy- ADOPTED!!

I don't walk - I run!		 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 27, '09 5:55am PST 
Actually it was Sonny Jin that pointed us in your direction - I didn't know your whole story until Buddy came alongsmile
Buddy is either 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 and is neutered. There are not ANY issues outside at all; unfortunately, it was stormy and windy here all weekend, so we were unable to spend a lot of time out there Sat and Sun with them all together. I will try the walking thing and see if that helps...he is quite the puller, so I may have to get a harness for him.
He takes anything from your hands very gently...treats or food. I feed him in 'his' room and the other two eat in the kitchen. With Shadow's attitude I am leary to get them too close together - especially where food is concerned. I have given them treats while they were standing all together and there were no issues there at all.
Thanks for you help and if you, or anyone else, has any suggestions PLEASE throw them out there for me!

Thanks,
Tania
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Tucker- Frannicola

I'm the boss,- that's why!
 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 27, '09 8:19am PST 
The storminess might have contributed to his being uneasy, and Shadow may have seen it as an opportunity to make himself the alpha male (which he should be, since it was his house first). If the problems came INSIDE the house, then it is definitely a "you're on my turf" kind of thing. If Buddy is submissive to Shadow, you shouldn't have serious problems.

You didn't say too much about Buddy's background, (abuse, being tied out all day, etc.) but instead of a harness, you might want to try a large link choke collar, and practice with him a bit before trying to take both of them. It is harder with an older pup than with a puppy, believe me - we've adopted 3 and 4 year olds, and our Matilda (the heeler) was 9 when we got her. It does work out, though, and it will be worth it. Please keep me informed!

Joy
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Buddy- ADOPTED!!

I don't walk - I run!		 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 27, '09 9:10am PST 
I don't know...Shadow is being VERY vigilent! No matter how appeasing Buddy is being. It seems that Buddy is currently submissive though. He will step back from the gate, lick his lips, look away and put his head down (most of the time).
So do you think that I should just let them be all together instead of seperated by the baby gate? I worry that this may cause Buddy to view Shadow as a threat and make matters worse. If I do this and there is an incident how far do I let it go? Who do I remove from the situation? Buddy's only goal in life, at this moment, is to by right next to me - no matter where I am.
I've been praising Shadow whenever he so much as LOOKS at Buddy without a reaction and giving him a sharp 'uh-uh' when there IS a reaction.
I just want to make sure that I don't do anything to make matters worse for ANY of them. Thanks again!

Tania
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Tucker- Frannicola

I'm the boss,- that's why!
 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 27, '09 10:29am PST 
Unfortunately, no one can know what's going on in a dog's mind. Buddy sees you as his rescuer, and naturally wants to be with you, which is ticking Shadow off, since you belong to HIM. IMO, if you're planning on keeping Buddy, you're going to have to allow them to interact without the gate. You can keep them on leash (loose leash, not holding them) for a few days, to be sure that if they do get into something you and your husband can separate them without getting bit, but the longer Buddy is "in jail" the more alpha Shadow is going to get.

HOpefully, someone else out there will have additional suggestions, or something to take my suggestions one step farther. I know that whenever I temporarily house a pup (in transit, or waiting for their new family to pick them up), I don't care if they are separated or socialized with my pack. It's nice if they all get along, but if Jake gets to be too alpha, they get separated. For those that I personally want to adopt, though, we work hard at getting them socialized. I know it's entirely too early to even consider this, but my Springer, Mocha, was terrible with the older dogs, especially the females. He used to bully them and my vet put him on "Clomicalm" which is a low dosage "doggie prozac". We used it for a few months until we were sure they were used to each other, and weaned him off of it. We've had no problems since. Like I said - this is something you would consider as a last resort, but it is comforting to know that there are alternatives out there.

Joy
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Buddy- ADOPTED!!

I don't walk - I run!		 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 27, '09 10:49am PST 
Buddy will be staying with us at least until I get his issues under control, so him and Shadow getting comfortable with each other is a neccessity!
Do you think that slowly letting them spend more and more time each day would be wise? Or just throw them together and see what happens? If/when something DOES happen, who do I remove?
That particular issue really kind of seems like a double edged sword. If I remove Buddy, Shadow's behavior gets rewarded, but if I remove Shadow he may view Buddy as a bigger threat than he is. You know "this dog makes bad things happen to me" type of deal...
It's so hard to figure out what the right thing to do is, and still keep them (and yourself) safe....
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Buddy- ADOPTED!!

I don't walk - I run!		 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 27, '09 11:43am PST 
I just had an idea...both Abby & Shadow sleep upstairs with my husband and I and Buddy has been successfully sleeping in the house with no accidents since Friday night. Do you think it would help if I gave Buddy the living room as part of his sleeping area? I would just need to move the gate when we went to bed. That way his smell would be more previlant throughout the house and maybe Shadow would adjust to it better? Or am I just grasping at straws?
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Tucker- Frannicola

I'm the boss,- that's why!
 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 27, '09 12:05pm PST 
Getting Buddy's smell throughout the house will definintely help - I don't believe in "throwing them together" - you should probably leash them for awhile until they get comfortable with each other. Like I said, you don't have to hold the leashes - they'll be there just in case they get aggressive. If they do, you'll be able to separate them. If you have to separate them, punish them both (even if it means putting Shadow outside and putting Buddy in his gated area) - they were both wrong and they should both be punished. Boy, Abby's gonna love this!

Me
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Tucker- Frannicola

I'm the boss,- that's why!
 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 27, '09 12:05pm PST 
Getting Buddy's smell throughout the house will definintely help - I don't believe in "throwing them together" - you should probably leash them for awhile until they get comfortable with each other. Like I said, you don't have to hold the leashes - they'll be there just in case they get aggressive. If they do, you'll be able to separate them. If you have to separate them, punish them both (even if it means putting Shadow outside and putting Buddy in his gated area) - they were both wrong and they should both be punished. Boy, Abby's gonna love this!

Me
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