GO!

Educating the Dog-Fighting Public??!!!?!

This is a special section for dogs needing new homes and for inspiring stories of dogs that have found their furever home through Dogster or through the love and energy of rescuers. This is also the place to discuss shelters, rescue organizations, rescue strategies, issues, solutions, etc. and how we can all help in this critical endeavor. Remember that we are all here for the love of dog! If you are posting about a dog that needs a new home, please put your location in the topic of your thread so those close by can find you! Make sure to check out Dogster's dog adoption center!

  
(Page 2 of 3: Viewing entries 11 to 20)  
1  2  3  
Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 20, '12 2:20pm PST 
I don't think it is accurate to call them sociopaths. Is a twelve year old child a sociopath? All of them to participate? No, it is what they know. Research has shown that many are exposed to fights when they are four or five years old. It's a spectator "sport" to them, before they can even tell between what's wrong and what's right. That's why new legislation upgrades a charge from misdemeanor to a felony for causing a minor to attend, and why so much of the HSUS anti fighting work focuses on getting to the kids before it is too late.

That's the important thing to understand. To think only sociopaths do this minimizes how common this is, or how easily kids raised on this can be swayed towards wanting a fighting dog of their own.

It's not near so much to me targeting the wrongdoers as it is breaking the chain that builds the next generation to continue onward. That's the big concern and why these more broad reaching laws have much better potential to make a difference.
[notify]
Opheila

It ain't over- till the fat- kitty sings
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 20, '12 5:02pm PST 
I agree it's about breaking the chain, the cycle that allows dog fighting to continue through generations. It's a misconception that all dog fighters abuse their dogs as well. To some it is a sport and they treat their winning dogs very well. It's a culture that is hard for us to understand. It also makes it that much more difficult to eradicate.
[notify]
Kolbe

Where can I run- today?
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 21, '12 12:16pm PST 
The act of pitting them against another dog and encouraging them to rip each other apart is still abuse though, regardless of how they treat the dog after it wins... I also think many of these people are downright delusional, calling themselves "dogmen" instead of "criminal scum" and convincing themselves they are loving to these dogs and that dog fighting is a valid "sport", and so on. You sure are right that it's difficult to understand. I'll never understand these people and I honestly think for most of them it's a fruitless effort to try and get them to see their wrongs... I guess I would unfortunately rather have to begrudgingly hand over my tax dollars to house these morons in prison for the rest of their lives so they can't do more harm and pass it down to the next generation.

Edited by author Fri Dec 21, '12 12:19pm PST

[notify]

Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 21, '12 2:33pm PST 
It's not the "good ones" to judge them by, but rather what happens to the bad ones, where there can be some culturally entrenched ritual to "make a dog pay" for embarrassing you. Indeed, in fights the winning dog in face of a weak one can be given what is known as a free shot....the losing dog held at the end of a fight so that the victor can have a go at him without the loser being able to defend himself. As noted, these sorts of trends....as is beating puppies, etc......are a lot stronger at the inner city level, which can be a lot more slapped together and less organized, particularly when it comes to the kids starting to involve themselves. In suburbia, some kids emulate adults and icons by playing with toy soldiers and water spray guns. In the inner city, it can play quite differently. Playing big man games, and this is what you do, totally desensitized.

I don't think there's a rehabilitation of them, but nor do I feel one needs to be inherently sick in the head to participate. There are countries still where bears are shackled and dogs are sent to tear them apart. Or in a country full of culture, art and refinement, aka Spain, its fine to attend a fight where a bull is taunted into a frenzy with spears, driven to exhaustion, and then slaughtered with the crowd cheering on the whole way. It is not that there are not alternatives choices, for bull leaping is a very old sport that brings no harm to the bull, requires braver fighters who are far more exposed to potential injury (in terms of the machismo factor), and includes athletic feats from the fighters far more entertaining. It is the love of gore. Which in cultures where it is not checked continues unabated.

I can even observe hound dog culture, where a person will have a pampered pooch inside the house. Groomed to perfection, snuggled daily, reassured and spoiled, fully vetted. And then outside, SAME owners, the hound who is chained, gets no positive attention, is treated roughly, and with "a dime a dozen" mentality. If you try to talk to these individuals about needing to treat their hound better, you will be looked at as if you have two heads. Trust me....been there, done that.

It's serves us nothing, IMO, to dismiss those who fight as twisted. It undermines the strong cultural influence, which truly is ground zero. Let's get to the kids, give good role models, make the prices paid for not merely fighting these dogs but "enjoying" these events as spectacle and entertainment one with a pretty serious potential consequence. Laws against spectactorship is a pretty significant stride.

I do see the cultural link in dog fighting. I don't think there is redemption, but I don't need to see anything inherently sick in participation....I do feel it minimizes the cultural question, which is what needs to change.
[notify]
Opheila

It ain't over- till the fat- kitty sings
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 21, '12 4:00pm PST 
It is a sick culture of course...the use of other animals as bait, other dogs too. Then there's the callous attitude towards the dogs who don't have "game"...For those of us who have so called fighting dogs it really hits I still feel they should have dressed Vick in Gaga's meat dress and had him run the field with the dogs they recovered from his house. Can't stand seeing his face...
[notify]
Nare

Woo-woo- whineybutt
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 21, '12 5:07pm PST 
Sadly I've got to agree with everyone else. If we cannot effectively educate people on their pet's diets, mental and physical needs, positive training, going to a reputable breeder.. etc.. Then Im going to go ahead and throw dogfighters into the mix. They view their dogs as cash cows and tools. These aren't loved family pets that their owners would do anything for..

The younger public is a good start.. I started to get involved with dogs when I was 12, got Nare when I was 15, here i am now..
One thing I thought was really cool, was at the library near me, every week they let the kids read to dogs and they give out little pamphlets about positive dog training and they have a lot of books on it too. I dont think Nare has enough patience for it but its really cute and cool.. Maybe Ark would do it lol.
[notify]


Member Since
12/02/2012
 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 21, '12 7:58pm PST 
I agree with Tiller. Sometimes you just can't talk sense to people who have closed minds, especially if they have made up their minds about one specific thing.
[notify]
Daddy

Changing one- mind at a time - APBT style
 
 
Barked: Sat Dec 22, '12 5:04pm PST 
I agree any suspicious activity needs to be reported.

I have to say I do think adults and teenagers old enough to know better have to be somewhat sociopathical or at least not right in the head to torture living beings to death or pit living beings against each other to brutally harm one another. I grew up around animal abuse because of my mother's ex, but I saw the pain in the animals' eyes and I knew it was wrong. I know how much the abuse hurt me, I could never do it to another living being. I don't think there's any excuse for the behavior.
[notify]
Charlie- Brown Cocoa- Puffs

1275296
 
 
Barked: Sun Dec 23, '12 6:57am PST 
it's bad enough that these people are criminals in general. but dog fighters are a genetically flawed species of human as far as i am concerned. as far as going to talk to these people. yeah not a good idea. working with your local gang task force on educating young people and rehabilitated people may be a good idea though. but you don't just walk into a house full of gang bangin dog fighters and say "hey, what you guys are doing is wrong !!" you would not get a good response
[notify]
Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Sun Dec 23, '12 11:12am PST 
It's way beyond the gangs, though. Understand that. Some outfits, particularly in the south, breed these dogs in highly professional operations, with much pedigree, many generations of fighting dogs. One man, Floyd Boudreaux, and his son were busted, to the surprise of some as they were well known in weight pull circles, where their dogs did very well. But they had their own fighting strain as well. Contrary to the inner city, these dogs, who are very often bred for function (very often red noses with a discernible type...not big, somewhat low stationed, terrifically strong), can sells for thousands of dollars as prospects. Known champions can sell for far more. Much betting is done on these fights. It is a truer "industry."

I don't think it's prudent to view them as genetically flawed. Some can be, but this has a strong cultural link, and until we address that, we are in a losing proposition.

In terms of Daddy's comments, I do understand what you are saying, regarding what you were exposed to as a kid and how you knew that was wrong, but you were not exposed to dog fighting as a "fun event" when you were four years old, either. That can have a huge influence. Much like little children born to racist parents....the amount of hate spewing from a little pipsqueak of a thing who is supposed to be enjoying his playdough is unfathomable until you make that association.

I have been involved in animal welfare a long time, and have seen far worse, which is why I acknowledge that cultural link more. I don't need to hate a fighter....I need to loathe the culture and know it must stop. It desensitizes everyone. A lot, as I said before, as you will see as regards bullfighting in Spain, which is extremely brutal and cruel. But an adored "sport," those who participate become national heros, and many who attend and enjoy are cultured, educated, etc. Many here are fine with calf roping as seen in rodeo, where little calves run out of a chute scared for their lives, chased by a huge horse, have a lasso thrown over their necks, are strangled to a stop, often flying in the air, then slammed to the ground by the cowboy, who then wraps his legs in rope and leaves him helpless, tied on the ground. I can tell you that these cowboys often love their horses as brothers, have pet dogs they travel with. They are not incapable of loving animals...not by a long shot. But they are desensitized to the plight of the calves.

In animal welfare, there are moments that help you define really bad people from those culturally influenced. Perhaps the best example would be the show jumping horse insurance scandal, where wealthy people and Olympians were discovered to be utilizing horse hitmen they could hire to kill or maim horses very much alive. This included breaking legs with a crowbar, and then needing to let the horse live in horrific pain so that a vet could come and approve euthansia for a supposed accidentally broken leg to get the insurance claim. These were people with every advantage, people who horses had given their careers and fortunes, treated their good horses to the finest of care and concern, and yet were willing to hire people to kill their lesser prospects in very painful and cruel ways. Many were also electrocuted to their deaths. That to me is inherently more disturbing. People who knew all about loving and valuing horses, knew of their kindness and how they would give you their hearts, yet when one looked to be a losing proposition financially, to hire a hitmen to bring him to a painful death simply so you could cash in. Something their show jumping peers would never think to do, not in a million years.

Edited by author Sun Dec 23, '12 11:17am PST

[notify]
  (Page 2 of 3: Viewing entries 11 to 20)  
1  2  3