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ADA require paperwork!!

The Service and Therapy Dog forum is for all service and therapy dogs regardless of whether or not their status is legally defined by federal or state law, how they are trained, or whether or not they are "certified." Posts questioning or disputing a person's need for a service or therapy dog, the validity of a person's service or therapy dog, or the dog's ability to do the work of a service or therapy dog are not permitted in this forum. Please keep discussions fun, friendly, and helpful at all times.

  
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Lucy Ribeiro

1300329
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 29, '13 11:00am PST 
In fact a fellow SD team and great friends of mine respected the laws and didnt know where to get a Vest or how to get the paperwork from there doctor or other things they wanted to get to make it easier to go into a business they respected those places like for example the buddhist center we are with and didnt enter. In fact they left there beautiful Akita in the car with the engine running and the AC blasting for him. However two years later they met me and I told them where and how to get things.

The buddhist center never asked me for anything beyond is my dog a Service dog. I have a vest on her at all times when entering a business or when she is working and have cards on her. However now that he has the vest and has the cards they are now forcing him to get registered or certified seems a bit freaking ridiculous but because he doesnt wanna have to argue or fight he just wants to get it done so they stop asking things. If you dont have a vest I suggest getting one if you dont have some kind of card saying its a SD better to get one just to end the fighting on your part.
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Sam

My Sammi
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 29, '13 12:49pm PST 
Hey Cooper! Just a note about the DOJ and ADI. The DOJ has, indeed, shown a preference now...the DOJ now requires service dogs that are taken into places like the VA medical centers to have been trained by an ADI certified trainer. It was signed into the 2010 update to the ADA. What really pisses me off about that is this: I spent 15 years of my life defending AMERICA, and our own DOJ will BAN my service dog THAT I NEED AS A REUSLT OF MY SERVICE TO AMERCA, unless it's been trained by someone certified by an INTERNATIONAL organisation. And do you know how a trainer attains certification by the ADI? They send in $1,000 for the certification, and $500 a year thereafter to maintain it...it's all about the money. Not yelling at you, Cooper!!! Just disappointed in my government...alot shrug
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Lucy Ribeiro

1300329
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 29, '13 1:25pm PST 
Sam your kidding right? Thats freaking ridiculous that they force you to go to a ADI trainer which for one they arent cheap at all and cost tons of money and they force you to do that in order to have your SD in a place like the VA? Thats bull. What a crap country forces the people who faught for our freedom and to keep those people in office and they treat you like that. Thats freaking ridiculous.
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Sam

My Sammi
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 29, '13 1:53pm PST 
Thankfully I belong to an organisation that was founded by an Iraq war vet with PTSD and TBI who was put on a 5 year waiting list for an SD. He knew he would have probably done himself in by then, so he decided to train his own dog, and it was so effective that several of his wounded war buddies in the local area asked him to assist them. He decided to found the organisation which runs on nothing but donations of funds, food, equipment, veterinarian care, etc. After a veteran is accepted into the program, if they don't have a dog that passes the evaluation for the program, the local shelters and rescue organisations that we deal with are scoured for the best match. Everything is at NO EXPENSE to the vet. Long story short, the organisation/trainers have to be certified by ADI, so the expense will be covered by donations. That being said, yes, my friend, it is a poor state of affairs that our government seem to like to cowtow to the international community at the expense of the wounded veterans who have served to protect our independence.
P.S. You know what's even worse? The VA has stopped paying an annual stipend to vets with SD's, (a minimal amount, but the difference between an SD or no SD for many), because they "Haven't seen sufficient proof that they are effective". This in spite of the fact that VA doctors and mental health providers have been prescribing them for years with amazing results! An average of 22 veterans PER DAY commit suicide, and it has been noted repeatedly that suicidal thoughts are dramatically reduced in many patients employing service dogs...thanks again Uncle Sam!!!
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Nova

1184372
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 29, '13 2:04pm PST 
Agreed that the VA is a mess. Veterans who don't need assistance are being showered with free money and free benefits and free health care for life and free food and free everything...while there are many who need assistance who are falling through the cracks.

But as I mentioned earlier, requiring a certification doesn't necessarily mean it would have to be ADI certification, or if it were ADI, they would obviously have to find a way to make it free.

What's really scary, as we've mentioned before on these boards, are the "Pawz4Vetz" groups popping up everywhere thinking they're training SDs when they're really sending unqualified dogs out to veterans who need SDs. They mean well, but veterans and the public deserve better. The service dog who killed the 6-year-old who was one of those "Pawz4Vetz" dogs.
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Sam

My Sammi
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 29, '13 4:09pm PST 
Stricktly in reference to SD's for veterans: The Veterans Administration requirement in section (Final Rule) 17.148(c) is that a service dog complete ADI training and be ADI certified before a veteran...can recieve benefits under 17.148(d).

"There are no Federal standards for service dogs that we can apply, and VA does not have the expertise to design its own accreditation program or standards. ADI and IGDF are national, industry-recognized organizations with established and proven training criteria."

So yes, Assistance Dogs INTERNATIONAL has us by the balls if we want VA assistance with a service dog for our "invisible disabilitles"
eek
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Nova

1184372
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 29, '13 4:35pm PST 
So, just because something is international, it's bad? I'm not sure I follow your logic.

Yeah, I know about the VA laws. In this thread we're talking about requiring certs for all SDs, not just those owned by veterans. Clearly, the VA model is not one to emulate.
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Sam

My Sammi
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 29, '13 6:31pm PST 
No, something isn't bad just because it's international. But there are organizations here in America that our American government can learn from. Obviously you're not a military veteran, or you would know how wrong it feels to be told what to do by outsiders when you've sacrificed so much for American independence. Do you think our gun laws should be dictated by the UN, too?
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Nova

1184372
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 29, '13 7:08pm PST 
What? I don't even...Are you saying that I don't love America as much as you do? Just because you were in the military doesn't mean you get to be the sole arbiter of what constitutes patriotism, and just because somebody disagrees with a veteran on an issue doesn't mean they hate America.

The ADI test is considered a good standard. I don't care whether you call it "Assistance Dogs International" or "American Dogs for Independence" or whatever buzzword you want to use. I'm talking about the quality of the test itself. Whatever you want to call the organization, wherever you want to house the organization, the organization has spent a lot of time and effort into developing guidelines that SDs should adhere to, and no organization in the US has come close to matching their efforts.

I would suggest, rather, that it's an insult to the greatness of this country to impel the government to waste its time and money re-inventing the wheel. What made this country so great is that we take great ideas from wherever we find them and refine them to be suitable for our needs. Do you think we would be the country we are today if we didn't use French military expertise during the Revolutionary War, an English model of governance to form our democracy, international trade agreements? Gutenberg's press, Hahn's nuclear fission? You could go on and on.

We don't just take any old international idea and use it just to do so; we take the best ideas wherever they originate, the ideas that can make us a stronger country, and mold them to shape our unique American needs. So of course we wouldn't have the UN dictate American gun laws. That's absurd, and a complete non sequitur.

I'm suggesting that we take the ADI model and refine it to suit our needs.

(And, as I've posted here before, I come from a military family and I had a close relative die in Iraq. So. Although that's completely irrelevant to whether ADI is a suitable certifying organization.)
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Cooper

microscopic mutt
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 29, '13 9:33pm PST 
Sam wrote:

Hey Cooper! Just a note about the DOJ and ADI. The DOJ has, indeed, shown a preference now...the DOJ now requires service dogs that are taken into places like the VA medical centers to have been trained by an ADI certified trainer. It was signed into the 2010 update to the ADA.

Well... I THINK I know what you're talking about, but there are enough differences between what you said here and what I know to be true that I'm a little confused. So I'm going to talk a little bit here about my understanding of things and maybe together between the two of us we can make some sense out of this.

First, the ADA does not apply to federally-owned facilities like VA hospitals. One part of it (Title II) applies to state and local governments and another part of it (Title III) applies to privately-owned property. But federally-owned facilities are explicitly exempted from the ADA.

Both the VA and the DOJ are part of the executive branch of government.

* The VA is a part of the Department of Veterans Affairs, which is a cabinet-level department.

* The DOJ is itself a cabinet-level department.

Here is the most important thing to know:

The DOJ does not tell the VA what to do. The VA does not tell the DOJ what to do. They are completely separate.

Now, of course it's very true that the DOJ made a whole bunch of changes to the ADA in 2010. They were first published on 9/15/2010 and then went into effect 3/15/2011. But you can see for yourself that neither of the two sections that pertain to service animals say anything about the VA:

ADA Title II (Nondiscrimination on the Basis of Disability in State and Local Government Services)
http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/titleII_2010/titleII_2010_regulations. htm

ADA Title III (Nondiscrimination on the Basis of Disability in Public Accommodations and Commercial Facilities)
http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/titleIII_2010/titleIII_2010_regulation s.htm

What I think you may be thinking of is a set of revisions that the Department of Veterans Affairs made to their regulations on 9/5/2012. Those changes related to the VA paying for certain expenses related to having an SD - but not for the cost of obtaining a dog, not for psych dogs, and only for dogs from ADI and IGDF programs.

Those changes DID NOT pertain to access in any way. What the authors had to say about that was as follows:

We reiterate that this rulemaking does not address the issue of access to VA health care facilities by individuals accompanied by service dogs, and will not be used to determine whether a particular service dog will be allowed to enter a VA facility. Comments that allege unlawful violations of access rights or raise other issues relating to access to VA facilities, therefore, are beyond the scope of this rule. Therefore, we make no changes based on these comments. A certificate [from an ADI or IGDF program] is required under ยง 17.148(c)(1) only to enable the veteran to receive service dog benefits, but is not required to gain entry to VA facilities. This rulemaking does not permit or prohibit the access of service dogs to VA health care facilities.

https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2012/09/ 05/2012-21784/service-dogs

So that's what I know: if they also made changes to regulations regarding access I haven't heard about it (and I think I would've). And please put the blame for that last and (IMHO) lame and half-assed rule change on the Department of Veterans Affairs, not on the DOJ. The DOJ isn't perfect, but they're generally sort of the good guys. I hate to see them taking the heat for something they had nothing to do with.
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