puppy advice

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Need info on service dogs

Barked: Wed Dec 12, '12 12:00am PST 
im reading cesar millans book - how to raise the perfect dog - as a starting point to learning about raising a puppy as it is something i have never done before.

one of the big things he mentions is not to let the puppy have the run of the whole house as they crave structure and rules - which makes sence. but he said his collegue upon getting their puppy kept her in her crate in the laundry room or in the backyard for the first week and that its best to pretty much ignore them for this time - doesnt this seem more than a little cold? wouldnt this cause a dog anxiety issues to be left alone all the time when they are meant to live in a pack? i mean i understand thier need for rules but i find this more than a little restrictive and harsh.

this runs contrary to everything ive known until this point.. is this really what raising a puppy is like? i want my SD to sleep with me for reasons relating to my disorder - a number of my tasks are nighttime ones. and i want to be able to enjoy him being a puppy - not keep him in a crate where he can look but not experiance. i dont want a dog that seeks its crate for comfort - i want a dog that stays with me all the time and is allowed on the bed, couches ect. without being unruly.

im finding cesars book a little hard to take - for example he supports this german shepherd breeder who seems to train all of her puppies in packs before they go to their new home.. im not saying its necissarily wrong it just seems so impersonal with all the puppies down-staying in a line while making sad faces. i understand obidience and that a dog isnt always going to look happy but i thought this was supposed to be a fun experiance - not playing prison warden. and there are pictures of the same breeder who has wire dog crates with plastic bottoms and she doesnt even put a blanket down for her dogs.

cesars book skips a number of things - like he'll begin to explain a concept - for example he recomends clients to spray bleach water infront of their homes before bringing a puppy home but he never explains why or elaborates. i just dont understand it - cesar raises his dogs to live in his garage - but i want a dog that lives with me and is attentive to me and wants to be with me! not who lives in my garage! whats the point of even having a dog if you cant spend time with them, you cant enjoy them, you cant do anything fun, and you have to keep them in a crate and not cuddle them, not talk in a baby voice, and god forbid you acctually want the animal youve waited your whole life for to sleep in your bed instead of isolated in a whole other part of the house! maybe cesar isnt worth his rep? what do you think?

what have you guys done in terms of the first few weeks at home? where did your puppy sleep, did you section of part of the house? did you pay them no attention as cesars book reccomends?
i guess my real question is how do you think a balanced SD that is allowed in my bed and stays with me, yet is still respectful should be raised ?
or maybe you could reccomend some books that have helped you?

id be really interested in your advice and opinions =)

Edited by author Wed Dec 12, '12 12:34am PST


Late Christmas- Baby
Barked: Wed Dec 12, '12 1:35am PST 
Going to put this in caps so no one misunderstands me. I THINK MILLAN IS FULL OF BS. Now with that being said there isn't anything wrong with what you are wanting. It might take a bit of time before pup will sleep in the bed with you without waking up and getting into trouble. Right now my 10 month old pup ( we think he is 10 months) sleeps in a crate beside my bed at night. He is allowed in the living room and stuff supervised but stays with me most of the time. He doesn't sleep with anything in his crate except one of his chew toys since he tears up his bedding at the moment and that is what our trainer told us to do. If I was you when I get the pup I'd take the lil guy to puppy classes and go from there.

Super Service- Schnoodle
Barked: Wed Dec 12, '12 5:42am PST 
I also think that CM is full of crap.

Consistency is probably going to be most helpful to you and your puppy. Plan a routine, stick to it. If you plan on not letting your dog on certain furniture, never let them start, if they are to eat in a certain room, that's where they should eat, etc. If you plan on having your pup sleep in bed with you, let the puppy sleep in your bed. I don't think it screws with "pack structure" to let a dog, especially a puppy, sleep with you, so long as you are consistent on rules, and structure.

I can't recommend anything because each author has pros and cons, and it is really up to you to decide what style you raise your pup with.


too old to eat- any more KD
Barked: Wed Dec 12, '12 6:21am PST 
The idea of the bleach is so that anyone who has stepped where there are diseases like parvo or distemper will sanitize their shoes before entering, thus not infecting pup.
Cesar is NOT a trainer..he rehabs dogs. While he has some good points, I would never raise a puppy using his methods.
A Much better book for you would be Ian Dunbar's "Before and After Getting Your Puppy."
Puppy raising is an art, as well as a science. There is so much more to it that is intuitive than book learning, per se.
I have to add...and this is not meant to be mean...If you are researching puppy raising & have not done it before, you may want to rethink your ideas of: a)getting a Shiloh, & b) owner training pup as an SD.
Need info on service dogs

Barked: Wed Dec 12, '12 12:03pm PST 
thanks for all your help! i will deffinatly read 'before and after getting your puppy' the more i read cesars book the more questionable i find it - like you said there are some good points though.
i mentioned in another thread that i have trained a number of horses and the majority of the techniques and concepts are identical to parelli natural horsemanship! i am familiar with all the same major principles already - consistancy, responding with the same level of intent as what youre correcting, when to step in, how to stop correcting at the perfect time, physically blocking ect. are all things im very familiar with and use on a daily basis. and i am considering very carefully if OTing from a puppy is right for me - hence why im reading this book now =) i deffinatly want to have all my ducks in a row before deciding on my plan of action. i apreciate your words of caution and i deffinatly will not dive into this until i have done alot more research.
Savannah Blue Belle

A Heart of Gold!
Barked: Wed Dec 12, '12 12:05pm PST 
Another vote for Ian Dunbar's book.

Most libraries have it, I work in one and recommend it often to new puppy owners.

Barked: Wed Dec 12, '12 7:38pm PST 
I have nothing against CM, but a lot of his training methods I don't agree with.
I've never referred to a book while raising my pup though. I do what feels right and that's it. Sometimes I turn to the internet (places like this) if I have specific questions or problems.
I LOVE the crate. I would have seriously lost my mind without it. Until my puppy was about 14-15 weeks old, he stayed in his crate unless I could keep my eyes on him at all times. And I mean 100%. He had a lot of potty accidents because I made the mistake of either running to the bathroom thinking he'd be fine, or taking 3 seconds to grab something from a different room.
Needless to say he spent a ton of time in his crate because puppy-sitting just couldn't be my full time job. When I felt confident that he could wander around and not randomly stop to pee on the floor, I let him have full home access. By that time he also knew that only his toys were acceptable to chew on.
I did allow him to explore different rooms a little bit at a time before then though, either on a leash or just with me following him around and watching. I wanted him to already be semi-familiar with the whole house so there was not completely new smells everywhere.
The crate doesn't have to be tucked away in a room you hardly go into. Keep it in in your living room or wherever you are most of the day. Puppy will like being where the action is and it will help him feel more comfortable.
I would strongly advise against letting a young puppy sleep on your bed. Put the crate by your bed. I like having Sun snuggle with me at night and I let him do what he wants, including snoozing on my bed, when I'm doing my nightly routine. But he still goes to his crate when I turn the light out and sleep.
I would never trust a puppy not to potty or destroy something while I am fast asleep. They are mischievous!
Ralphie ESA,- SDIT

Menus to Society
Barked: Wed Dec 12, '12 8:37pm PST 
you can download Dunbar's books here (just remove the spaces) "www. dogstardaily. com/ free-downloads"

Barked: Thu Dec 13, '12 4:02am PST 
Most reputable dog trainers think Cesar Milan is horrible, just horrible. I say "most" because I haven't met every single reputable dog trainer out there, but I do know quite a few and every. single. one. of them has nothing but horrible things to say about the guy and his methods.

Read Suzanne Clothier and Patricia McConnell. Suzanne Clothier's "Bones Would Rain From The Sky" is a must to get an idea of how you'd like to approach your relationship with your dog, which is even more important in the SD world than in the pet dog world. Your personal relationship will be key to your working relationship, and in terms of raising a puppy is a LOT more important than "formal training" at that state, and will serve as the basis for formal training. So don't skip the relationship step, as most people have a tendency to do.

Patricia McConnell has more step by step training instructions.

The Boy Wonder
Barked: Thu Dec 13, '12 7:16am PST 
I sent you a pawmail with information that might help.