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Seizure response dog: Owner trained or programme trained?

The Service and Therapy Dog forum is for all service and therapy dogs regardless of whether or not their status is legally defined by federal or state law, how they are trained, or whether or not they are "certified." Posts questioning or disputing a person's need for a service or therapy dog, the validity of a person's service or therapy dog, or the dog's ability to do the work of a service or therapy dog are not permitted in this forum. Please keep discussions fun, friendly, and helpful at all times.

  
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Darwin CGC- TDI SD

I'm just Lucky- to be here.		 
 
Barked: Wed May 30, '12 8:32am PST 
Best of luck OP! And of course feel free to holler if you need anything!
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Holly

1239473		 
 
Barked: Wed May 30, '12 2:17pm PST 
Well said Darwin! That is exactly what a service dog is all about!
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U

I miss you, U		 
 
Barked: Wed May 30, '12 4:05pm PST 
not 50 in a truely mediocre way

Why assume that if a dog knows 50 commands they all must be mediocre? To the contrary, my experience has been that the more things a dog has been taught, the better it has become at learning. And the better it is at learning, the easier it is to teach and to proof new commands (which is, I'm sure, why program trainers can teach so many tasks in the first place).

So in my experience, if a dog has been taught things that you don't need at the moment, it's no loss but a net gain - the dog is better off for having learned how to do those things even if you never use them.

- NoNameYet
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Otto - Registered- Service Dog

ADI cert. - the only one- that matters!		 
 
Barked: Wed May 30, '12 6:22pm PST 
silenced
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Darwin CGC- TDI SD

I'm just Lucky- to be here.		 
 
Barked: Thu May 31, '12 12:29am PST 
NoName you seem to have missed my point to be clearer is that what I have seen of program dogs is that yes they can do fifty plus things but they do them slow and half the time, graduated dogs, some working for multiple years. And this is across MANY programs. I would much rather have a dog do the five things I need quickly and 100% of the time.

Edited by author Thu Jun 14, '12 9:19am PST

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Darwin CGC- TDI SD

I'm just Lucky- to be here.		 
 
Barked: Thu May 31, '12 12:37am PST 
It's time lost. Time is a very valuable thing when you are talking about the unfortauntely very short lifespan and working life of a service dog.

In my case if my dogs alerts are not 100% on then my independence is gone. In the blink of an eye. Say good bye to driving...and living alone... Just done. I can't even cook for myself if they are not on.

I don't have the luxury of wasting time on commands that I simply don't need. And I don't have time to sit on a waiting list for a dog...that one day...might learn to eventually give me warning of a seizure...
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UKC ALCH- Coleman SD

Coleman at your- service		 
 
Barked: Thu May 31, '12 5:00am PST 
I always find it interesting that there is a great outcry when owner trained dogs are all lumped together based on one individuals experiences but there is no problem claiming program trained service dogs are mediocre at their work. I guess Coleman missed that memo.
If a handler doesn't keep up training and practice with their dog, regardless of who trained it, they aren't going to do it as well. In flyball, if a dog is allowed to do/rewarded for a sloppy turn or it isn't practiced as much, guess what? That once great, tight box turn becomes sloppy.
Just because owner training is right for one person doesn't make it right for all, nor does it make all programs sub-par. I likely won't train another dog because I can't put 2 years of work in to a dog that may have to wash out at the end of it.
I'll make one last point. Not all programs are bad, neither are all owner trainers. There are bad apples in both groups.
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Jolanda

I grin from ears- to chin :D

moderator		 
 
Barked: Thu May 31, '12 8:56am PST 
true
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Otto - Registered- Service Dog

ADI cert. - the only one- that matters!		 
 
Barked: Thu May 31, '12 10:36am PST 
Yup. Some programs are like Podunk Community College while others are more Harvard.

ETA: That's why people need to do their homework. And for the record, many "Ivy League" SD schools are not-for-profit so there is little or no cost while it seems most Podunk's charge a large fee.

Edited by author Thu May 31, '12 10:39am PST

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Tuvok

Toovy Doovy Doo- Ready and- Willing!		 
 
Barked: Mon Jun 4, '12 10:56am PST 
It seems to me that the dogs behavior and how quickly they do the tasks depend on the handler and to some extent the dogs personality. Some dogs are quick and some more laid back. Some handlers keep their dogs training sharp and some are not natural handlers despite much training or are poor handlers and let their dogs get sloppy. I've met a few guide dogs with bad behaviors I'm sure they didn't originally come with. Also i think dogs get bored if their education stops totally.

The biggest problem with program dogs are is the relatively small (compared to the time it actually takes to learn to train a dog on ones own) amount of time the person has to learn to work the dog.

Otherwise, I believe program dogs are a better way to go for most people if they qualify. You don't have to worry as much about the dog washing out. They should still read up on dog training so they can keep the dogs training sharp and problem solve any behavior problems that come up. Program dogs are still dogs and need the same care and regular training sessions.

As for dogs not needing to do other ttasks or work.... service dogs benefit greatly if their education is ongoing. My dogs education never stops. We are always improving. Some things I teach are silly and make me laugh and some are truly useful. Tuvok seems genuinely happy to learn each new thing.

Edited by author Mon Jun 4, '12 11:07am PST

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