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The Service and Therapy Dog forum is for all service and therapy dogs regardless of whether or not their status is legally defined by federal or state law, how they are trained, or whether or not they are "certified." Posts questioning or disputing a person's need for a service or therapy dog, the validity of a person's service or therapy dog, or the dog's ability to do the work of a service or therapy dog are not permitted in this forum. Please keep discussions fun, friendly, and helpful at all times.
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Ollivander
Super Silver- Service Poodle
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 | | Barked: Tue Nov 3, '09 11:23am PST | |  | |  | | On another listserv I'm on, it's seeming like mastiffs are becoming more and more popular as SD candidates. I know I wouldn't want one because of the size and drooling issues. But apart from the large size inconveniences and drooling issues, what do y'all think of mastiffs as SD candidates? I've met one in person and he is AWESOME, but I don't know anything about mastiffs so don't know if this is a breed typical temperament or not. |  |  | |  |
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Dora
Wag your tail- and the world- wags back
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 | | Barked: Tue Nov 3, '09 12:13pm PST | | | | | | Unfortunatly the only dealings with mastiffs is my mother had a neighbor with two that were in a 6ft chain link yard. One day they got out and came into her yard and killed our 12 year old labx on her front yard. She was out working in the flower beds and our dog was laying there by her. Come to find out they had done this before. Now in all fairness these dogs were not socialized and the owners were idiots. After 30 years of working in shelters and vet clinics I never jusdge a breed by one dog. i cannot remember if they were bull mastiffs or what I would have to look at some photos of mastiffs to remeber wich one. I never ran across any at the shelters or clinics so i am not sure of thier temperment. There is one at the Dog park i go to but it is in the big area and i have not spent anytime around it. I could not handle all that droooling. If I were going for a really big dog I would pick a bouvier I have been around many of them and I love them. They can be aloof but that is not a bad thing with a Sd I do not believe. | | | | |
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Kaylee
Wag more, bark- less! |
| | Barked: Tue Nov 3, '09 12:32pm PST | | | | | | Health is a major issue- major orthopedic problems, lots of early cancers, and a really short lifespan. The drool doesn't even bear mentioning.  And while they're a very moderate energy level, they're frequently pretty independent and not very easy to engage in drive for training.
I think they'rea a really lousy choice, frankly.
Cait | | | | |
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Bradley CGC,- GDIT
guidinggolden.wo- rdpress.com |
| | Barked: Tue Nov 3, '09 1:18pm PST | | | | | | I'm with Cait. Also, while it's not all of them, some are combative with other dogs so meeting other service dogs could pose a problem. Skilled handling can mitigate this but it's something I wouldn't want to have to deal with, on top of all the other necessary training.
I have enough problems with people being afraid of Bradley- I could only imagine how many more issues there would be with a Mastiff.
Even a Mastiff from a great breeder would likely have a temperament not suitable for service work.
Don't get me wrong, I love them- I just wouldn't peg them as a good candidate as a service dog.
If I wanted to use a Molosser breed, I'd definitely go with a Newf  | | | | |
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ProZac
SDit and Ready- to Learn |
| | Barked: Tue Nov 3, '09 2:38pm PST | | | | | | As someone who has owned several, and worked with many more, I have to totally disagree with most you. The are a wonderful breed. Laid back, couch potatoes. They do not droll like you all think they do. Most drooling is done while eating and drinking and since that is not done while a dog is working that is not much of an issue. They are great with kids and other dogs, they have great temperments if well bred and well socialized (just like any other dog), are pretty smart and easy to train. But you can NOT judge an SD potential by breed regardless of what it is. That HAS to be done by the individual dog. So to discount any dog by breed is a great disservice to the dog and to you. The SD has to fit the person, their need, and their lifestyle. | | | | |
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Kaylee
Wag more, bark- less! |
| | Barked: Tue Nov 3, '09 3:01pm PST | | | | | | Laid back does not, to be honest, make me think that a breed in general is a great candidate for SD work. While it's definitely true that dogs need to fit into the handler's lifestyle, dogs need enough drive to train! Calm from lacking drive is not the same thing as calm from training!
There's a reason that very few of these guys title in any performance sport. It's not because they are not lovely pets. It's because they're very, very laid back, not big on quick response to commands as a general rule, and frequently because soundness becomes an issue for a very large number of them in a sport that's at all demanding.
I think they're really lovely dogs. My first friend who was INTO dogs as a kid had mastiffs, and they really were wonderful dogs. But none of the things that MAKE the breed what it is are things that are conducive to SD work. | | | | |
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Gracie
Service with a- Smile! : ) |
| | Barked: Tue Nov 3, '09 3:31pm PST | | | | | | There is a trainer at our club who keeps mastiffs. One of her previous Mastiffs was her service dog. She intends to be the first person to get an OTCH (obedience trial championship)on a mastiff. It's not that they aren't trainable, but it's the fact that they don't live very long that has kept a mastiff from getting an OTCH. She gets them from top lines and they only last about 5 years more or less. For obedience, the dogs do some jumping and she has problems with them going lame as they get older. such a shame.
Mastiffs are very gentle dogs with big hearts. They seem to be easy to teach manners to. I think these traits are good for SD work. Mastiffs would be easy to train for mobility tasks where someone uses the dog to steady themselves or help them up. there aren't many breeds out there with the size needed for some people.
I don't like to say that any one breed should NEVER be used as a service dog. All breeds have their issues. And you can find individual dogs in any breed that are exceptional and would make good service dogs. | | | | |
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Taser
Mutts Serve Too |
| | Barked: Tue Nov 3, '09 4:20pm PST | | | | | | I totally agree with Prozac.
Mastifs make great SD's especially as balance and stability dogs or mobility dogs. Mastiffs and Bull Mastiffs are easily trainable and very loving and loyal, great with people and children. One of their best qualities, is once you teach a mastiff a command they've learned it and they don't forget it. Mastiff's training generally never breaks down. Just something special about this particular breed.
I'd have one if we could still put them in public up here in Canada. Hopefully the private members bill goes through on the repeal of the Ontario BSL and my next SD will be a Bull Mastiff. | | | | |
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Kaylee
Wag more, bark- less! |
| | Barked: Tue Nov 3, '09 4:22pm PST | | | | | | Gracie - I do appreciate what you're saying, and I've talked to the person you're talking about on a competition obedience list. It's not that an individual mastiff might not be suitable. Seriously- I honestly don't think there's a breed that it can be said that EVERY SINGLE DOG Is going to be unsuitable.
What I *am* saying is that it is a REALLY dumb decision for an owner trainer to make, to expect their dog to be so atypical and so brilliant for the breed, that it will overcome any innate breed tendencies that might NOT suit SD work.
The soundness issue is honestly probably the biggest one I would see with an SD. Obedience is MUCH less physically demanding than agility, for example, and yet mastiffs frequently don't stay sound through that. Most people jump them much lower than competition height through practice, show them only in outdoor shows on grass, and generally baby their joints (for those who don't know competition obedience, a dog competing in Open B & Utility B (for OTCH points or a UDX legs) jumps less than 5 times (once over the broad jump & a retrieve over the high jump in open, and then twice in utility. These are admittedly high jumps (the mastiff is one of the breeds that jumps a lower height in relation to their own shoulder height), but for a dog to break down under that level of demand is (or should be!) worrisome for someone who is going to be using the dog as a support.
There are huskies wh ohave no desire to run and a naturally attentive nature; there are physically insensitive, inactive border collies; there are retrievers that have no desire to put thigns in their mouths. But to choose a breed and HOPE for that one in hundreds or thousands of individuals who is atypical and perfect for your purposes is just setting yourself up to fail.
When we're talking about this in the context of owner-training, this gets more serious. It's HARD to rehome a prospect that washes out. A lot of people can't do it. (And there are more than a few people out there working dogs that SHOULD have been washed out of training and are NOT okay to be in public, for their own health and safety or that of others.) Everything an owner trainer does needs to be geared towards a successful working dog. ESPECIALLY when the dog chosen is a puppy, the breed selection needs to be done with every thing you can do to maximize your chances of success. | | | | |
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Bianca
What big ears- you have...
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