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The Service and Therapy Dog forum is for all service and therapy dogs regardless of whether or not their status is legally defined by federal or state law, how they are trained, or whether or not they are "certified." Posts questioning or disputing a person's need for a service or therapy dog, the validity of a person's service or therapy dog, or the dog's ability to do the work of a service or therapy dog are not permitted in this forum. Please keep discussions fun, friendly, and helpful at all times.
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Spike
Don't Berate,- Educate! |
 | | Barked: Sun Jul 5, '09 4:26am PST | |  | |  | | Roanna, I'm not saying that certification should be required or that it wouldn't be extremely difficult to manage. I'm not arguing with you on that at all, and I agree with what you've said. But as I said, there have been a lot of discussions about it lately, and I was just curious if people would use a program like that if it were available.
Harley, I agree education is first and foremost. My hubby gets upset at me for how often I stop to talk to the gatekeepers or whoever explaining the laws. I wish most employers actually imformed their employees, though. I've actually found that the small businesses in the area know more about the laws than anyone else. |  |  | |  |
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Barkley- Orville- Fuzzy Butt
Professtional of- the SSCs!
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 | | Barked: Sun Jul 5, '09 9:27pm PST | | | | | | Geezz, why so harsh?
So by your logic, I guess the "right" way to do it with any service dog is no vest or harness either because those also are not required and it makes it harder for teams that do not have them.
The doesn't require cirtification but it also doesn't say you can't have it.
I never used Barkley's cirtification in an access challange BUT it gives me big peace of mind that I have all my ducks in a row and that if an access challange goes to court I have the backing of a professional trainer that will stand up for me if I need her too. Now I understand that school dogs already have this but Barkley is OT by me so I have no large school or organization, and for me I'd rather have someone backing me up, then have lost a big fight. | | | | |
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Harley, SD,- CGC, TDI
Super Service- Boy!!
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| | Barked: Sun Jul 5, '09 9:34pm PST | | | | | | Barkley,
I understand why you are glad you have certification, but I don't think you would loose a court fight because you didn't have it. If you were in court, your dog would be in court with you, correct? I would think that the dogs behavior in court would go a LONG way towards the argument about your dogs training. Because the ADA states that service dogs don't need certification, not having it should not make a hill of beans of difference in court. (Now, that's using common sense. Common sense and government stuff rarely go hand and hand). | | | | |
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Karla (Guide- Dog)
Gotta luv me! |
| | Barked: Sun Jul 5, '09 9:37pm PST | | | | | | Program trained dogs are not certified. There is no such thing as certification for SDs, that's the point. Places that advertise certification are money making ventures, nothing more. And they prey on people who feel, for whatever reason, they "need" to somehow prove their dog is a SD.
I just find it sad that so many owner-trainers feel they need to spend money on bogus certification. If your dog is well trained, is performing the tasks you require of it, and your dog is well mannered and able to handle the stresses of being out in public and doing what it is trained to do, that is proof enough.
Don't let yourself be bullied into doing things that you are not required to do! Take a stand... for yourself and your dog. If (and hopefully it'll never happen to anyone here) you ever end up in court for whatever reason involving your dog's SD status, rely on the ADA, it's the law, it's enforcable, it's on your side. | | | | |
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Barkley- Orville- Fuzzy Butt
Professtional of- the SSCs!
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| | Barked: Sun Jul 5, '09 9:46pm PST | | | | | | That is a good point Harley, but I still like to have a trainer backing me up.
Karla, even though school dogs arn't cirtified you have the whole school/organization behind you backing you up if you were ever to go to court.
I didn't pay anything for Barkley's PAT, I became good friends with my trainer and she did it as a favor and it was more like a girls day out with her watching him the whole time. And next year I am going to school to become a cirtified dog trainer myself so from then on I can do it myself and still not pay a penny. | | | | |
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Roanna
Guidework is a- beautiful thing |
| | Barked: Sun Jul 5, '09 9:55pm PST | | | | | | Actually, by my logic, a Guide dog without a harness is pretty much useless, so that would make it a pet, and not allowed in the public venue. So, a harness is actually required. You wanna vest your dog....fine. The vest isnt a lie.........but the "certification" papers are.
I do not believe I was being harsh.
What I am really trying to do is understand the mental processes of those who believe: "Wow! Now that I have this phoney-baloney piece of paper that says my service dog is certified, I am much more confident in public venue travel" as opposed to the mental processes of those who believe (correctly): "I refuse to be discriminated against because of my legal use of a service dog. I know the law and am confident in my travels, so I do not need to rely on something that is not needed and is, in fact, a lie.....which is "certification" papers for my service dog."
Harsh...no. Truthful........yeah. But I guess sometimes the truth can be harsh for some.
Besides, the whole idea of "You vill haff to show your papers" just doesnt sit right with me.Edited by author Sun Jul 5, '09 9:58pm PST
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Marley CGC
One in a million |
| | Barked: Sun Jul 5, '09 10:07pm PST | | | | | | I support certification only for the purpose of keeping out fakers/law breakers. Or even better than certification, education of buisness owners and enforcement of the current laws!!!! I can't stand it that even with many, many, many complaints, some fakers just get to keep breaking the law. | | | | |
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Karla (Guide- Dog)
Gotta luv me! |
| | Barked: Sun Jul 5, '09 10:21pm PST | | | | | | Oh yeah, UGH!... the fakers out there! So many, so often, so ignorant. I don't think there'll ever be an end to the fakers dragging their ill-mannered pets everywhere under the guise of SD. Certification won't change it, we all know anyone can get certification anywhere on the net. We can just keep standing up for our own rights and be sure our own SDs are up to par, well behaved, clean, well trained and not let ourselves be pushed around, denied access, etc.
I've been challenged many times re: access to public venues... never have been kicked out, won't happen. I know my rights, and so far when the ignorant shop keepers attempt to deny me and my dog, simply stating, "Fine, I'll just call the cops" and pulling out my cell ph is enough to change their tunes. They're not happy, but they quit their bellyaching and back off. | | | | |
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  | (Page 2 of 2: Viewing entries 11 to 20)
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My Account
I don't even know why I tried. Sorry Spike.
