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Can I feed ground if it is cooked?

This is a dedicated place for all of your questions and answers about Raw Diets. There are also some really cool groups like "Raw Fed" on the topic you can join. This forum is for people who already know they like the raw diet or sincerely want to learn more. Please remember that you are receiving advice from peers and not professionals. If you have specific health-related questions about your dog's diet, please contact your vet!

  
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Savannah- Blue Belle

A Heart of Gold!
 
 
Barked: Wed Feb 27, '13 6:17am PST 
Hi, Sita! We also get a good price on the gizzard and heart mix. We live in a big chicken producing region, and my little girl Dubs loves the gizzards more than anything!
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Member Since
02/02/2013
 
 
Barked: Wed Feb 27, '13 7:31am PST 
Meridian, your WE statement was a dig at my post. I think you misunderstood my entire post! I think everybody here misunderstood my entire post, actually.

This is what I said:

"We raw feeders who are crazy about our dog's nutrition "...

That is a QUALIFIED WE statement. The WE pertains to those of us (including me) who are CRAZY about our dog's nutrition. These WE includes those English Bulldog parents who spend jillions of dollars for vet bills just because we happen to feed the wrong food to the dog.

WE prefer to eliminate the risk that doesn't need to be there... hence, my statement that says, "for us, there's not enough justification to feed both kibble and raw"... that's US that was refered to by the WE who spend a lot of time worrying about our dog's nutrition.

The kibble and raw theory is not out there because we are extremists. It is out there because there is a reason why it is a risk which is why I made that post in the first place to explain the reasoning on why we avoid kibble and raw together in the dog's stomach. That entire post is an acknowledgement that we are on the "as less risk as possible" side of the dog food spectrum.

And, if you read the post again, you will see in the last paragraph that COOKED GROUND MEAT is NOT KIBBLE and, therefore, can be fed to the dog with raw. Cooking destorys some of the nutrients of meat so that although it is less risky as far as bacteria load is concerned, the diminished nutritional value offsets the risk.

When you have English Bulldogs like I do, you don't have the luxury of taking unnecessary health risks on your dog. So my previous post explains to people who happen to read dogster WHY we chose to do so instead of just saying - some dogs get sick, don't know why, they just do.
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Kolbe

Where can I run- today?
 
 
Barked: Thu Feb 28, '13 7:55am PST 
Well said Meridian! I the human eat maki sushi, raw fish wrapped in cooked white rice, I'm shocked I haven't dropped dead yet since I'm not even as equipped as my dogs to handle bacteria in the digestive tract. I just think the whole omg oh noes never mix them thing gets a little bit overplayed.

Guest, not sure how anyone was supposed to magically deduce "we" meant "English Bulldog raw feeders who pay a lot of vet bills", so I think misunderstanding your post was fairly easy to do. I'm assuming most don't even know you have an English Bulldog since there is no profile.
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Saya

I want to play!
 
 
Barked: Thu Feb 28, '13 10:55am PST 
Haha Yeah I love sushi and sashimi and have eaten steak sashimi once.

I also eat brownie batter and cookie dough which has eggs in it.

I only do home made cookies not kind in tube. I always gotta have a spoonful before I cook it. Yummy.
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Member Since
02/02/2013
 
 
Barked: Sat Mar 2, '13 7:25am PST 
Kolbe, you misunderstood me again. The SENTENCE ITSELF says it! We who are CRAZY about our dog's nutrition... it's not specific to English Bulldog owners! There are a lot more breeds than just English Bulldogs that have genetic health issues that makes us have to be CRAZY about our dog's nutrition! The entire post explains WHY people who are crazy about their dog's nutrition avoid mixing raw meat and kibble.

You know, English is only my 3rd language but even then, I have read and re-read that post ten times and still cannot see how else I could have structured that post to express what I was trying to say.

And if I can ever figure out how to make a profile, I will have one. I have tried twice and it still did not show up. I don't have a jillion hours to spend on it.

And to all others: about that sushi. I'm not sure I understand what this has to do with anything. Is this still part of a discussion that spawned off from my post about the bacterial load of raw meat?

Yes, sushi may be topped with raw fish. Fish used to make sushi comes from sea water. Salt is a dessicant which acts as a preservative. When coupled with the vinegar in the rice, it fights off bacteria. But even then, raw fish still has a higher bacterial load than cooked fish. Rare steaks is great - seasoning it with salt and scalding it may lower the bacterial load. But it still has a higher bacterial load which causes people to get sick and therefore, the FDA requires a sign on every restaurant menu that ordering rare meat is hazardous to your health. That's why we don't make a habit of giving raw chicken, beef, and pork to our children like we do to your dogs. It is a FACT. Dogs have an acidic digestive tract that kills bacteria. People don't. Raw meat has a high bacterial load. It will make people sick. It won't make your dogs sick unless he overloads on it or he is health compromised. I don't even know why this needs explaining.

Edited by author Sat Mar 2, '13 7:32am PST

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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Sat Mar 2, '13 11:19am PST 
Several years ago a dogster got a kit to grow bacteria and had a great time swabbing everything in sight. Veggies and fruits, loads of bacteria. Meats very little bacteria. I sure wish my search-fu was strong enough to find that thread! ANY food that has been handled by others is potentially contaminated.

Contaminated meats will have some bacteria *on the surface* but carefully butchered meats are very clean as bacteria in food comes from contamination of the GIT and is not intrinsic to the food itself. Ground meat provides lots of surface for bacteria to grow, inside a solid piece of meat there won't be bacterial contamination. When a solid piece of meat goes green around here the inside would be fine if it was possible for me to trim it off without contaminating it. With that in mind a person trying to keep bacteria exposure to a minimum would cook ground but might try washing the surface of solid pieces and serve those raw if that was what was on the menu.

The concern with bacteria in the first place is a bit misguided. Some people need to watch bacterial loads as their immune system is in poor condition and cannot be repaired. Most people need constant exposure to low levels of bacteria to keep the immune system strong and it is a bad idea to try to keep from getting exposed to bacteria and other disease causing organisms.

As for feeding cooked and raw together it completely depends on the dog. Max cannot digest cooked cartilage. After half a dozen upset tummy>nasty vomit containing the offending bit incidents I know he cannot have the cartilage ends from my cooked chicken or cooked gizzards. He does just fine getting half a meal of chicken or pork pieces or ground beef cooked and the other half raw. Your dog might be fine or might have a horrible time.

As for veggies and raw? I gave Max a couple ounces of canned pumpkin and it came out the other end looking the same way as it went in. Smaller amounts seem to be digested though, they aren't obvious when I pick up poop anyway.

As for kibble and raw? I gave Max some all meat dry dog food and he had trouble with it the first couple times but now is okay with it as treats. Doubt he would touch normal kibble, haven't tried lately.

Max has had an actual food borne illness once. He got a contaminated fast food hamburger as a treat and it took me a couple weeks to get his gut back into gear. He has had stinky meat many times and never been ill. I don't much like feeding such but it does happen.

That is MY dog. Your dog might be just fine mixing it up any which way. Try to do any experimenting when there isn't any pressure so midnight potty breaks aren't a problem. Cook the ground if you like and offer only a little first time, more the next to see how it goes.
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