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Poop Question (warning: long post)

This is a dedicated place for all of your questions and answers about Raw Diets. There are also some really cool groups like "Raw Fed" on the topic you can join. This forum is for people who already know they like the raw diet or sincerely want to learn more. Please remember that you are receiving advice from peers and not professionals. If you have specific health-related questions about your dog's diet, please contact your vet!

  
Oliver

1282869		 
 
Barked: Sat Feb 9, '13 9:30pm PST 
I apologize in advance for the gross detail.

I know there have been posts about poop and raw diet before, but I didn't really get the answer I was looking for. I was told that usually a side effect of a raw diet is less stool, that is brown in color and crumbles/decomposes quickly (oh and less smelly). I know this depends on the meat-bone ratio, but my dog's poops after having been on raw for a little over a month are nothing like what I've read about. They're really dark, usually mucousy or hard (but not crumbly), and extremely smelly. I noticed it even more now that it snowed because it seems like the poop is somewhat liquidy along with the solid parts. I'm nervous that the poops are coming across this way because I'm not feeding a well-balanced raw diet.

Here is the boys' typical diet
AM - chicken leg quarter or chicken thigh
liver/kidney/(chicken organs from whole chicken) 3-4 times a week
1/2 1000mg ester c pill

PM - Pork, Beef, Venison, Chicken MM.
2 pumps Gizzly Salmon Oil
1 Total Flex joint supplement
1/2 1000mg ester c pill

I feed roughly 1.5 lbs a day for each of them. They're male GRs 5 and 7 months 40 and 60 lbs.

I'm wondering if maybe I need to add some sort of probiotic to aid in digestion? I can't imagine they're not getting enough bone because the leg quarters are roughly 30% bone and then their second meal is MM so that's like 15% bone. The pups tend to have bad gas and burps too. My 5 month old also has pretty bad eye discharge (not infection - vet checked it out). I thought when I switched to a raw diet that that'd clear up, but it hasn't..another reason why I think there's some sort of imbalance because I've read that this is a symptom usually related to diet. They do get treats that aren't Prey Model fit with carbs/veges/etc. I didn't think treats would have that large of an impact, but maybe I should start making my own treats?

Sorry for the novel!
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Member Since
02/05/2013		 
 
Barked: Sat Feb 9, '13 10:43pm PST 
I just recently started raw as well. I'm feeding pre made raw, Stella and chewys. Sandy, my very picky eater, loves it, but had runny poops with the mucous you are describing I added a probiotic made by naturvet but there are alot of good ones and sandy started having solid poops that day!! Just look for an all natural one. That fortifloura from the vet is not good! Hopefully someone who makes their own raw can comment on your exact diet. The probiotic did work for sandy.
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Member Since
02/02/2013		 
 
Barked: Sat Feb 9, '13 11:01pm PST 
Dark loose stool is usually a sign of too much organs in the diet. The recommended organ ratio is 5% liver and 5% other organs (like kidneys and brains).

Now, my dog eats 1 lb of food a day. In this diet, I feed only half a pound of liver and half a pound of other organs in a period of 10 days. To make it easy on me, I feed around half a pound of liver after 5 days, then around half a pound of other organs after another 5 days. By the way, heart is considered muscle meat, not organ.

Now, this ratio is only a guideline. You have to do some observation on the dog to adjust the ratio to fit your specific dog. Fortunately, this ratio has been working for my dogs so I didn't have to tweak it. But, other dogs might need to add more or feed less than the recommended ratio. And the color of the stool is your easy indicator of whether you need to tweak it. I don't use supplements at all. Organs are rich in vitamins and minerals so supplementing certain minerals would impact this ratio.

Now, if your dark stool has blood in it, you need to take your dog to the vet because he might have some gastric bleeding. Fresh blood in the stool could possibly be bleeding in the colon. Tarry blood could possibly be bleeding in the upper intestinal tract.

Hope this helps.

Edited by author Sat Feb 9, '13 11:14pm PST

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Oliver

1282869		 
 
Barked: Sun Feb 10, '13 7:53am PST 
I definitely will try the probiotic, thanks! There poops are like this everyday whether or not they've had organ meat (they were like this for the 3 or so weeks before I had even introduced organ meat) so I'm not sure if that's it. They get a little under a pound of organ meat a week split 50/50 between liver and other organs. There's not blood in the poop, just blackish and smelly. Thanks for the replies!
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!		 
 
Barked: Sun Feb 10, '13 10:03am PST 
Max's poop smells as much as it ever did if the poop is a bit moist. I suspect the wetter the smellier and don't worry about it at all. Have to remember some dogs with really nasty kibble poop were either having digestive issues or were fed pretty awful food, Max was fine on pretty good kibble.

If you are just feeding the kidneys tucked into the back part of the quarter then that isn't too much organ but rather not enough for a complete diet as you know but try taking them out and saving for later to see what happens. Could be that couple grams a day is more than they can handle right now.

Good that you are on several proteins quickly for pups but maybe one or the other is bothering them. Try feeding only one protein for the evening meal for a few days to see if that helps the gut settle down.

Another thing you could do is reduce the amount fed. Or you could take the skin off the chicken quarters to see if things change.

Max's poop on half bony chicken, half red meat and too much organ would likely look like your pups. Dark, mostly firm with some soft stuff and stinky. His favorite kind of meal, too much organ!

Since you are mostly just a bit puzzled as to what is going on do one of the little changes at a time for a few days.
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Duke

I'm king of the- world!		 
 
Barked: Sun Feb 10, '13 10:36am PST 
I second adding in probiotics and digestive enzymes (Nutrigest and Mercola Pets make fabulous ones, respectively) and removing excess fat. Duke gets loose, stinky, mucousy poop every once in awhile when he gets too much fat. You might also check labels to ensure none of the meat is enhanced.

Another thought is a food allergy. The thing you mentioned that makes me think allergy is the eye goop. Duke is allergic to chicken and when I first started him on raw with the requisite boney chicken, he had daily loose stools and horrible eye goop.

However, I wouldn't go straight to suspecting an allergy. Try the other suggestions first. If you still have nasty poop, then you might consider an elimination diet (remove one of the proteins for at least 3 weeks and see if the problems resolve--if so, you know the culprit. If not, eliminate something else and so on).

Edited by author Sun Feb 10, '13 10:38am PST

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Oliver

1282869		 
 
Barked: Sun Feb 10, '13 1:04pm PST 
If I do try weaning out chicken to test for allergy what type of bones should I be giving him that are safe for chewing/consumption? I'm going to try skinning the chicken before feeding it this week and see if that makes any difference, then move on to testing if its the meat! Thanks everyone!
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Member Since
02/05/2013		 
 
Barked: Sun Feb 10, '13 1:43pm PST 
Sandy has several allergies wheat and any type of poultry or eggs. So if u decide to eliminate chicken make sure u don't feed eggs or any other bird. My vet says anything with feathers or anything that comes out of something with feathers. My vet has noticed the most common allergies are poultry and wheat. Obviously wheat is not a problem with raw but poultry is. I only feed sandy venison and rabbit because he has also had bad reactions to beef and lamb.
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Duke

I'm king of the- world!		 
 
Barked: Sun Feb 10, '13 3:34pm PST 
I've never raw fed a puppy. But Duke is 90 lbs and he eats duck neck, turkey neck, goat ribs, beef ribs, whole rabbit (skinned/gutted), duck heads, and venison neck. I've heard that a hunk of ribs is great for smaller dogs, as it's big (to prevent gulping) and they can nibble the ends to get what they need. Dogster Maxwell suggests that a lot.

As for the allergies, I think it depends on the dog. Duke is severely allergic to chicken--he will react on even an ounce of it (including eggs). But he is fine with turkey, goose, and duck. Granted, with the turkey, I don't feed a ton. Maybe 8 oz or so per week. But that would be enough for him to react to, and he never does.

If you're going to do an elimination diet, though, I would eliminate ALL poultry to begin with to see how they do. Then you could add them back one at a time (after at least 3 weeks without). If they have a reaction, you know it's an allergy.

ETA: I would also stop the treats. Could be there is something in them that's causing a reaction. Duke gets cooked meat for training treats (something not greasy or crumbly--skinless turkey, venison, lean beef and lean pork are what Duke gets). I cook, cut up, and then toss it all in a freezer bag after cooled. They stay good for a long time and you can grab a handful as you need them. If you want chewing treats, go for bully sticks. They last forever and give a great workout!

Edited by author Sun Feb 10, '13 3:41pm PST

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