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Nutritional Tracking Sites

This is a dedicated place for all of your questions and answers about Raw Diets. There are also some really cool groups like "Raw Fed" on the topic you can join. This forum is for people who already know they like the raw diet or sincerely want to learn more. Please remember that you are receiving advice from peers and not professionals. If you have specific health-related questions about your dog's diet, please contact your vet!

  
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Zack

Move or I'll- plough you down!- (lovingly)
 
 
Barked: Sat Dec 1, '12 12:13pm PST 
I've been interested in tracking Zacks diet for a while, but have no idea how to go about it. I've been looking through threads on here and one site seems to keep coming up: nutritiondata.com - is this the best one, or is there one more suitable for raw diets? Or does it not matter?

See, the thing is, I have no idea how to use them. I've been on the website and have browsed and looked at the help sections and it just seems to do everything in its power to confuse me. Shouldnt I need to put Zacks nutritional recommended intake into the database, and THEN put his diet in? How do I find out what he needs? I found this page on the internet:
http://dels-old.nas.edu/dels/rpt_briefs/dog_nutrition_final.pdf

it seems to be great a listing how much of everything is needed, but when it gets to minerals and everything only one measurement is given - shouldnt it depend on the dogs size? Surely a chihuahua and a great dane would need DIFFERENT amounts of minerals?


This is really stressing me out *sigh* Every time I manage to tell myself to sit down and do this, it just doesnt sink into my brain and whats on the screen may as well be written in a foreign language. Could anyone please give me some guidence on this? I really need to know where I can find the daily nutritional intake for medium sized dogs. How on earth do you guys all put your dogs food through a nutritional website? I know I'm probably making mountains out of mole hills, but this is something that looks so very complicated! frown
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Duke

I'm king of the- world!
 
 
Barked: Sat Dec 1, '12 1:55pm PST 
Find "the spreadsheet" on this forum. I don't have it bookmarked, but I bet Maxwell or someone else will chime in with a link.

The spreadsheet will tell you what your dog's nutritional needs are based on weight, activity level and age. You then plug this into ND.com under "My Preferences" as "Individual Daily Values." (The default is the standard Daily Values for humans.)

Once you have entered your dog's IDV, you can then begin creating recipes. Go to "My ND," then "My Recipes," and click "Create Recipe." Here, you will search all the various foods and supplements (if applicable) that your dog was fed over a period of time. When I evaluate Duke's diet, I usually do a week at a time, just to keep it workable. I don't analyze his diet every week, just every so often when I get the urge to see some numbers that reassure me everything is balanced.

In order to get the analysis reasonably accurate, you will need to record EVERYTHING your dog eats over a week, month, whatever you're analyzing. I record Duke's intake right down to the tenth of an ounce when I know I'm going to plug it into ND. I include supplements like fish oil. If you supplement with other things (like kelp, Missing Link, coconut oil, etc.), you might have to make a "custom food" and enter the nutritional analysis from the product's label.

You will probably have to play around with the tool to get used to it. Once you have created a recipe and searched out your protein, click the " " sign to add it to the current recipe. The cursive "e" allows you to edit a saved recipe. You can either "Save" just to save the recipe, or "Save & Analyze," which gives the full nutritional analysis.

Be sure you adjust the units on your recipe items! It will always default to 1 unit, but you have to pick lbs, ounces, grams, etc. from the drop-down. If you don't keep it consistent, your analysis will be way off. I do everything in ounces. So if Duke had 28.4 ounces of beef in a week, I enter "13.4 units" and change the drop-down to ounces. That seems intuitive, but it can be easy to forget and throw off your analysis.

It is a ton easier if you combine the week's food before entering it into a recipe. So I will go through Duke's "diet diary" and add up all the beef, tripe, goat, rabbit, pork spleen, beef liver, etc. to get a weekly total for each. Then I enter each item just one time with the total ounces eaten for the entire week.

In the example of using one week's worth of food, when you go to analyze, then you are looking for everything to be ~700% (remember that your analysis is combined for 7 days--ie., 100% for each of 7 days).

Also, I believe Vitamin K isn't always accurate. I remember Maxwell mentioning it once when I posed the question...I don't remember details. I do not get too worked up when Vitamin K is low.

Keep in mind that this is a tool, not an exact science. You are really only evaluating ~90% of the diet, as the bone portion is not included. Bone is not in the USDA database. Nor are some organs or whole prey. And with beef, for example, you will have to pick from a huge list of cuts and fat contents. I don't know about you, but I don't always know what cut I fed; I just know that it was beef. So I sometimes guess. Be sure you are picking raw and not cooked!


NOTE: For whatever reason, some browsers are not compatible with the search function--you will do a search and the list doesn't display at the bottom of the page as it should. I've had this happen with IE. I currently use FireFox and it seems to be most reliable on the ND website.

It's not perfect, but it gives a pretty good idea if you are a geek like me who likes to see the numbers. smile

Edited by author Sat Dec 1, '12 2:01pm PST

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UCH Onyx TT,- CGC

Do you even- lift?
 
 
Barked: Sat Dec 1, '12 2:04pm PST 
Balancing the diet

Posting from my phone so hopefully that link works. Gives step by step instructions on how to put your dog's info into the spreadsheet and database.
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Zack

Move or I'll- plough you down!- (lovingly)
 
 
Barked: Tue Dec 4, '12 2:27am PST 
OH MY DOG guys thank you SO much! Hugs for both of you! smile You have really, REALLY helped me with this - THANK YOU! I will have a crack at putting Zacks diet into ND now, and will get much farther than when I tried it by myself, haha.

Again - thanks SO much! You really have saved me A LOT of stressing out smile smile smile
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Zack

Move or I'll- plough you down!- (lovingly)
 
 
Barked: Tue Dec 4, '12 5:06am PST 
Honestly don't know what has happened - nothing is right frown I chose a week of Zacks food and put the data in (I keep a record of everything he eats anyway, so I just backtracked and put the data from last week in).

The results are mental. They should be around 700% but aren't anything close. I don't know how to post screenshots on here, but the figures are things like 'Vit A - 1047%, Vit K - 9399%, Total Fat - 1274%'. I mean - how can it go so wrong!? What have I been feeding Zack all this time!?

I'll break down his week for you and please PLEASE tell me if I'm doing something severely wrong here. Zack gets 400g per day (2.5% body weight). His week went like this:

(Anything 'ground' is 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% organ, apart from fish which is whole ground white fish)

MON - 300g ground lamb, 50g fish, 50g liver
TUE - 205g ground turkey, 195g chicken leg quater
WED - 300g ground lamb, 50g fish, 50g heart
THUR - 190g ground tripe, 210g chicken leg quater
FRI - 300g ground beef, 50g fish, 50g kidney
SAT - 155g ground tripe, 245g chicken leg quater
SUN - 300g ground lamb, 50g fish, 50g liver

He also gets about 100g-200g of raw carrot extra a week.

The organs alternate so it's a different one every other day, so one week he might get liver twice but the next he'd get kidney twice and the week after it'd be heart twice.

Am I doing something terribly wrong here? Am I feeding too much tripe? I know it contains a lot of nutritients - sometimes he gets it three times a week - is that too much!?

I thought tracking the nutrition would make me feel like I'm doing something right - not point out that I'm doing something terribly wrong! At least I know now and am doing my best to fix it - just need some guidance. Am I giving too much of something? Not enough of something? Help! frown
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Tue Dec 4, '12 7:38am PST 
I don't worry about being over so much as being under for most things. I have a few maximum and minimum amounts for nutrients but not many, be nice to have them for the minerals and vitamins. The water soluble vitamins can be way over, I think the supplement I gave Sassyp pushed to 1000% daily on most of them. You didn't mention protein, bet that is WAY over! You didn't mention vitamin A either, usually that is way over too.

If your diet info is about normal then you are underfeeding organs. If he eats 2800 grams a week then 280 of that needs to be organs and it looks like 150 grams to me and heart isn't organ. Try slowly increasing the amount fed and try to vary the types as well.

If you look at the tripe analysis on nutritiondata you will see it isn't high in nutrients. It hasn't as much protein or minerals or vitamins as red muscle meat. I feed about one meal a week to Max but part of that is because he only gets 1.5% of his body weight daily. I really should put the analysis I have found of it into a custom food on ND, haven't done that yet.

The items that are low in Max's diet are vitamin E, magnesium, manganese and zinc. If your analysis is coming up with enough of those then you are golden. Apparently green tripe has quite a bit of magnesium and manganese which is a very good reason to feed it. I tried ground sunflower seeds for those plus vitamin E but didn't care for Max getting them regularly. Zinc, more red meat doesn't work for Max's measly ration so he gets either a couple oysters a week or some from a mineral supplement.
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Duke

I'm king of the- world!
 
 
Barked: Tue Dec 4, '12 5:11pm PST 
Maxwell, always a wealth of knowledge, great info!

With Vitamin E, do you supplement to Max's IDV on ND? Or do you follow the dogaware.com recommendation? Mary Straus says this:

"Vitamin E should also be given whenever oils are supplemented. Just 10 IUs of vitamin E should be enough to balance one teaspoon or 5 grams of oil. My highest recommended dosage would be 1 to 2 IUs per pound of body weight daily. Larger amounts can be given less often."

http://dogaware.com/diet/supplements.html

Just curious because Duke comes up low (~300%) on ND when he gets 4 - 400IU capsules per day--way higher than the above recommendation, but way low per ND. I would have to give him 9 capsules per week to get him close to 700%!

If I gave him the maximum of 2 IU's per day x 90 lbs, he should get just 3 capsules per week. Duke gets a high dose of fish oil (11 tsp/week) because it helps his arthritis.

Hope this isn't hijacking as is helpful to the OP!
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Hadley

1173616
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 6, '12 11:34am PST 
Quick question, does this website seem to benefit a cooked diet more? I played around with it and I'm not too confident in their raw listings. I highly doubt it's raw, green tripe but more like raw, bleached tripe for example. And is this grass-fed meats or factory-farmed because that makes a huge difference. My dogs eat a grass-fed. pasture-raised diet and I don't see how the omega balance could be so off due to that....since I've always been told if you feed all grass-fed your omega and every other level will be fine. Just curious how much thought people give this website... there's things I feed like chicken/rabbit head that I can't put in either... I hope it's not that accuate of my dogs are not going to be getting the blanace they need!
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Duke

I'm king of the- world!
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 6, '12 11:56am PST 
You have to choose the raw foods. It's definitely a tool, not an exact science.

Duke gets all kinds of stuff that isn't in the database--goat, rabbit and deer organs; duck heads; whole fish. When I see somewhat high copper in an analysis, but know I've fed half beef and half other liver, I don't get too worked up, because I know I had no choice but to enter it all as "beef."

What the tool does is get you in the ballpark; and for me, that's better than nothing. I don't even add Omegas into my recipes. Duke gets a high dose of fish oil for his arthritis, and I know he is getting enough. What I wonder about (as noted above) is whether I'm giving enough E.

If you feed things that you have the nutritional information on (green tripe, for example), I would create a custom food and add that to your recipes. In fact, an old thread was recently bumped that contains an analysis of green tripe, and I'm going to use it!

I did not research or check, but I assume the USDA uses non-organic/grass-fed foods in their analyses unless otherwise specified. I suppose the best you could do is research to find out the estimated Omega levels in grass-fed meet, and then create a custom food for just that nutrient. I do that with a couple of supplements.
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Thu Dec 6, '12 1:37pm PST 
Use it to get in the ball park. ND actually has a couple of grass fed meats listed, search "grass". Whether USDA actually analyzed that or not I am not sure. I will do things like look at brain and eyes and see what feeding heads is doing for Max's diet. Good stuff besides the fun he has eating them. I see that brain and eye does nothing for the shortages he has so am assuming whole heads aren't going to completely balance his diet. If I fed all grass fed and wild meats I would assume vitamin E and omega 3 were covered. If I fed all whole wild prey I wouldn't be concerned with any of the others.

There are a few actual analysis of green tripe and bony meats on the web. You can put them into My Foods to add to the diet if you like. There is a terrific resource listing nearly all the nutrients in a wide variety of whole prey but my brain has frozen up every time I try to do it and I haven't been able to get one finished to my satisfaction on ND to see how it holds up to Max's needs.


http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
http://we bprod3.hc-sc.gc.ca/cnf-fce/index-eng.jsp

http://web.archive.org/w eb/20060315171055/http://www.greentripe.com/analysis.htm
http://web .archive.org/web/20070717182625/http://www.greentripe.com/analysis.h tm

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/WholePreyFinal02May29.pdf

Max gets a 400iu capsule when he gets fish oil and I call it good.
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