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liver and kidney only? hello again raw forum!

This is a dedicated place for all of your questions and answers about Raw Diets. There are also some really cool groups like "Raw Fed" on the topic you can join. This forum is for people who already know they like the raw diet or sincerely want to learn more. Please remember that you are receiving advice from peers and not professionals. If you have specific health-related questions about your dog's diet, please contact your vet!

  
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Cookie

the chi-weenie
 
 
Barked: Fri Oct 26, '12 9:46pm PST 
Hello everyone, I have not posted in a while.
Cookie's been doing great on raw since January, so approaching a whole year of raw this winter.

I got into ordering a pre balanced raw from the Reel Dog (previously S.A.D. Dog Sushi) company. It's really nice knowing it's all balanced and what not. But I've been brain storming on getting her back to a more whole meats and meaty bones diet since she has stinky breath and I know ground up diets don't do any good for that.

It's looking good for the most part. I plan on feeding beef and chicken thighs every other day (with the chicken thigh being perfect for one meal containing the two days worth of bone requirement).

I want to use ice trays to freeze 1 oz organ cubes. Cookie only needs 4 oz of organs every 10 days.

I have a couple questions that I hope you can help me with.
1). Is 50% red meat enough? She's been getting more than that with the current premeasured raw being the beef variety. With rotating beef and chicken she'd only be getting 50% beef. If more red meat is preferred, let me know if there are bone-in red meat options for small dogs. (Cookie only needs 4 oz of bone every ten days.)

2). Can a dog live on this diet with only liver and kidney being the organs? This is one of my main concerns. The premeasured stuff she gets had at least liver, kidney, spleen, thymus, and pancreas.

Hope to read your answers soon!
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Jackson Tan

Lad about town
 
 
Barked: Fri Oct 26, '12 10:14pm PST 
Honestly ... my Jackson only gets liver. Kangaroo and beef liver, dried. Occasionally he might eat a bit of lamb kidney but usually he finds it in whatever I've hidden it in! I supplement with a bit of kibble though just to make sure I'm not.missing anything, a bit in a toy a few times a week. Sometimes I give him canned food too as a treat. He mainly eats red meat, about 70% of his meat requirement. He's very healthy on this regime.
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Cookie

the chi-weenie
 
 
Barked: Sat Oct 27, '12 3:39pm PST 
interesting, and dried too? well well.
How long has he been on raw?

I am aiming to feed less non-raw things like kibble and certain treats because they are making my dogs breath STINKY! but she's too spoiled to be on pure raw, she's always getting SOMETHING to eat from someone.
But my plan to switch to more whole raw and less ground will help I hope.

and I would prefer a higher red meat % than just 50%
I'll have to look for some red meat with edible bone so that I can feed that instead of chicken thighs every other day...
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Buster

1201864
 
 
Barked: Sat Oct 27, '12 3:54pm PST 
Buster mostly gets kidney and liver as his organs with the occasional sweetbreads when I can persuade him to eat them and he's fine.

Preferably most of the diet should be red meat but it's easier to get the bone needed with poultry so 50% should be fine.

Edited by author Sat Oct 27, '12 3:55pm PST

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Cookie

the chi-weenie
 
 
Barked: Sat Oct 27, '12 5:14pm PST 
I'm thinking about making an organ mix out of what I can find...
can you put organs in the blender? silenced gag

What do you guys think I should put in it?
half beef liver, some beef kidney and sweet breads(I think I can find them somewhere).
Does that sound like an organ mix she will live a long and healthy life off of? xD

I guess I'm waiting for the dogs with the numbers to come in and say something. I've never been one to use a kitchen scale or look up nutrient profiles, but when it comes to supplying it all by myself... I worry about that stuff.
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Sat Oct 27, '12 5:53pm PST 
Half beef liver and half some other liver would be better than all beef liver as it is so rich in copper. Liver blends fine, never tried kidney. Pureed liver is bad enough, shudder to think how bad kidney would be!

Max ate only beef, chicken, pork liver and kidney for over a year, it is just fine.

You could feed bonier cuts of chicken so she would get more red meat. Instead of a thigh give a wing, neck, foot or half a back if she is safe with that particular cut. Max gets a whole lot of chicken ribs that weigh 3-6 ounces with 5-6 ounces of red meat and a couple ounces of organ one day and boneless red meat the next. I roughly bone it when it is on sale, we humans get the meat and Max gets the bones and skin.

I know it isn't as nice as giving a chunk of something for dinner but it is easy on the budget and he gets more red meat.

You can give any cut of pork or lamb and she would gnaw off enough bone for her needs but you would be throwing a lot of bone away. You can do the same for beef ribs, possibly neck and tail [whole tail!]. Just figure you will be tossing half the weight of the meal and count the price as double what you paid. I like giving something like this at least once a week as it is just plain fun and great for the teeth.
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Jackson Tan

Lad about town
 
 
Barked: Sat Oct 27, '12 7:45pm PST 
Jackson has been on raw for about a year now. He was always semi raw fed, I used to feed canned, kibble and butchers waste, bones and scrap and stuff, then I switched over to the proper prey model when I could afford it. He eats beef and pork chunks, with chicken drums and lamb flaps as bone. Beef and roo liver dried and raw lamb kidney when I can get him to eat it! A little pedigree or cat food in a toy or training treat sometimes, and dried beef tendon as a chew for his teeth. Like Max suggests sometimes he gets a meat organ bone mash from the butcher sold as pet mince. He has looked so much better since I started PMR and has put on about 5kg in muscle which was amazing! I think the high red meat content definitely helped. Try and get as much beef or other red stuff in there as you can, it's really the gold standard for dog nutrition I believe.

All of my beef comes from the chuck out bin at the butcher, if you can find one who cuts up his carcasses out back its well worth asking for trim.
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Cookie

the chi-weenie
 
 
Barked: Sun Oct 28, '12 7:03am PST 
thank you for the replies everybody!

and Max- I can definitely try half beef liver/half chicken liver for the liver.
I was thinking about feeding bonier chicken as well.... thighs are just so convenient because they are exactly the right size for one meal and therefore ( I read they are ~20% bone ) they are exactly 2 days worth of bone for the Cookie-monster.

Anyone have info on hand which says how many oz & percent bone is chicken wing piece/foot/other boney pieces.

She only eats 3-4 oz a day.
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Sun Oct 28, '12 7:40am PST 
Check Charlie's thread on Newbie Bone Cuts or something. I just bumped it to the top of the board yesterday.
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Cookie

the chi-weenie
 
 
Barked: Sun Oct 28, '12 9:11am PST 
thank you for bumping that up, it helped me with some things.

I did some more calculating and turns out that two chicken necks a week is plenty of bone for Cookie. leaving the rest of the week free to feed yummy red meat.

but I am a little disappointed. I feel like two chicken necks a week is hardly enough to keep her teeth in top shape. I imagine if she were bigger, she'd have more room in the diet to chomp more bones.
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