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freezing and parasites...

This is a dedicated place for all of your questions and answers about Raw Diets. There are also some really cool groups like "Raw Fed" on the topic you can join. This forum is for people who already know they like the raw diet or sincerely want to learn more. Please remember that you are receiving advice from peers and not professionals. If you have specific health-related questions about your dog's diet, please contact your vet!

  
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Arko

ah..finally a- good life...
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 10, '07 6:46am PST 
do wolves kill, freeze for a couple weeks, then eat?

no...so why should we? in a normal human freezer, we CANNOT freeze to the proper temperature...

we are only incubating the parasites, not killing them

with that said, has your pup gotten sick? no!!

feral dogs and wild dogs will eat carrion if given the opportunity...these have WAY more bacteria!!!! but they survive just fine...so something that your pet kills and eats is going to have less bacteria than carrion
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Tikka

This is me- ignoring you!
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 10, '07 7:24am PST 
Arko, two points:

1. Wild dogs DO get parasites! Some species of parasites or a high load of parasites can be life threatening. The alternative to freezing game meat is for the dog to have to suffer from parasites (NOT COMFORTABLE!!) and to worm your dog once the parasites have manifested.

2. Unlike bacteria, nematodes and most parasites are killed in subzero temperatures after 15 days. Some species can survive. If you feed wild game, you need to be well-informed about what species of parasites reside in the types of game you feed and how they react to freezing temperatures.

IMO, if you feed game meat often or feed fresh caught fish, it is safer to freeze it first.
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Arko

ah..finally a- good life...
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 10, '07 7:45am PST 
fish...it DEF doesnt work...i (human) got sick on fresh caught fish that had been frozen...

so it DOESNT kill anything, it INCUBATES....

it has to be at 20 below for 2 weeks or longer to KILL....normal freezers dont do that

wild canines eat random herbage to worm themselves...
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Brody

The best things- come in little- packages
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 10, '07 8:54am PST 
From the FDA website:
"Freezing (-4°F (-20°C) or below (internal or external) for 7 days or -31°F (-35°C) or below (internal) for 15 hrs) of fish intended for raw consumption also kills parasites. FDA's Food Code recommends these freezing conditions to retailers who provide fish intended for raw consumption."

That info is available here: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/haccp-2e.html

From the University of Minnesota:
http://www.extension.umn.edu/foodsafety/components/itsno game/wildgamecookery.pdf

"Freeze venison for a minimum of 24, preferably
48 hours, before eating or processing it into jerky
or sausage to kill any parasites or tapeworms.
�� Cooking venison to 160ºF also kills parasites and
tapeworms."

That website is for home consumption of game meat, so it looks like freezing in a home freezer is also okay in venison.

From what I've read, freezing might not kill parasites in meat-eating animals like pigs or bear, so I would definitely be more cautious with that.

Edit: cuz I'm dingy sometimes! BOL!

Edited by author Mon Dec 10, '07 9:09am PST

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Brody

The best things- come in little- packages
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 10, '07 9:11am PST 
What do deep freezer temps get to? Like 0? -10?

I know our venison was frozen in a deep freeze, but I'm not sure what temperature.
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Arko

ah..finally a- good life...
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 10, '07 9:26am PST 
COMMERCIAL meats are frozen to that temp...anything you buy at the grocery is frozen to that temp....
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Blake CGC

got meat?
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 10, '07 11:21am PST 
"COMMERCIAL meats are frozen to that temp...anything you buy at the grocery is frozen to that temp...."

Most often when raw feeders are discussing freezing to kill parasites, we're talking about game meats which are not acquired via the grocery store. Venison or other game meats from the store obviously do not need to be frozen again prior to being eaten.
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Arko

ah..finally a- good life...
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 10, '07 11:27am PST 
i understand, i feed raw also...you can BUY commercial game meats...

otherwise, there's no point in freezing...thats my point
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Blake CGC

got meat?
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 10, '07 11:31am PST 
"fish...it DEF doesnt work...i (human) got sick on fresh caught fish that had been frozen...

so it DOESNT kill anything, it INCUBATES....

it has to be at 20 below for 2 weeks or longer to KILL....normal freezers dont do that

wild canines eat random herbage to worm themselves..."


Sorry, I wasn't done. smile Arko, I think you may be twisted around in the difference between bacteria and parasites. Correct- freezing doesn't kill bacteria. It simply prohibits them from growing. It freezes time, so to speak. Deep freezing does, however, kill parasites. If you're buying your meat from a grocery store, etc, further freezing is not necessary as it has already been done. If you're hunting it yourself, I'd suggest freezing.

When you (human) got sick from fish, did you get worms? Probably not. So, the fact that it had been frozen doesn't really prove anything, IMO, except that the fish made you sick for any number of reasons.

Now, as for keeping our dogs parasite free. If you want to feed wild game meat or fresh caught fish without prior freezing, be my guest. Yes, you can certainly take the risk of Arko getting worms and then deworm him naturally with random herbage. But, for me and my dog, we'll just go ahead and deep freeze our game meats first. What's the big deal? wink
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Butters

~7lbs. of- spoiled rotten~
 
 
Barked: Mon Dec 10, '07 11:36am PST 
Wolves DO get parasites. That's why the lifespan of wolves is somewhat lower than the average domesticated dog. Wolves do not get healthcare. When they get worms, the pups get so infested that it will eventually kill them. Our pups could get worms from the game meats, but since they have healthcare, they are taken to the vets to be dewormed. (NOT saying raw gives pups worms...they don't get worms unless they eat fresh game meat that is infested with parasites and not flash frozen first.) And many raw feeders own a chest freezer which gets MUCH colder than the average refridgerator freezer.

Going back on a LONG time story:

Many years ago when I was growing up, our dogs would get into the deer guts that my dad tossed into the woods. The dogs would find them a couple days later, and help themselves to a gut feast. The outcome: a nasty worm infestation. We did not know the pups had worms until they were literally pooping worms.(no pun intended) OTC dewormers did not work. We found that out after the pups were pooping a bloody mess of diarrhea and worms. It was disgusting. The pups were taken to the vet right away, and were put on prescription dewormers. It took a few days for their poop to return to normal.

Because of that, I will NEVER feed my pups raw deer until it's been frozen in the chest freezer for at least a month.
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