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The Reputable Breeder

Got a new, young, furry love in your life? This is the place for you to ask all of your questions-big or small! Just remember that you are receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a vet or behaviorist! Most important is to remember to have fun with your new fur baby.

  
(Page 3 of 17: Viewing entries 21 to 30)  
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Addy, CGC

Let's go for a- walk!		 
 
Barked: Wed Nov 7, '07 5:33pm PST 
Ruby, how many litters does she produce a year? If the answer is higher than two, or at the utmost, since she's retired, three, no, she's not a good breeder because she can't give each pup the attention it needs. And if she's producing no more than that, and doing all appropriate health checks, and doing the research on the studs' pedigrees, and giving the bitches the pre-natal care they need, and bitches and puppies the neonatal care they need, and socializing the pups, and screening potential buyers, and guaranteeing a home to every puppy for its life and taking back dogs from buyers who can't keep them at ANY time for ANY reason, and living on what's left over--those must be some awfully expensive pups.
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Ruby

Im not fat! Its- fluff...		 
 
Barked: Wed Nov 7, '07 8:45pm PST 
I think the less I say the better, its seems the Jury has already spoken on this one...
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George- Sullivan- Bailey

Proud to be a- Connemara- terrier!		 
 
Barked: Thu Nov 8, '07 6:30am PST 
Sammie, I'm sorry that you're having health problems with your new dog and that the "reputable breeder" turned out to be anything but. Any responsible breeder (like the ones we're referencing here) would be HORRIFIED to find out that you're the THIRD person to have this dog... good breeders absolutely require that their puppies be returned to them if, for any reason, the original owner cannot keep them. I know Sully's breeder would be LIVID if she found out that a pup bounced from its original home without going through her first. She puts a TON of effort and time into these pups and has stated many times that she never wants any of her babies to become a rescue statistic or contribute to the pet overpopulation problem. Sounds like the breeder who produced Sammie wasn't in it for the right reasons, because she certainly seems like she could care less confused What a shame. Best of luck on Sammie's health and I hope he feels better very soon!
Addy, my breeder has about six litters planned for next year... the dogs all have different heat cycles so there are rarely multiple litters at once. She usually has a couple in the spring/summer and a couple in the fall/winter, and she's the absolute gold standard in breeders and everything you could ever hope for in someone raising healthy, sound, well-tempered puppies. They're all shining examples of JRTs and they are truly in a leage of their own. I don't think that the puppies get stiffed on attention, as each and every one of them are socialized to the max before they get home and are healthy and happy pups. Just because a breeder may have more than two litters per year doesn't mean they aren't responsible... some people can give more attention than others. big grin
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Addy, CGC

Let's go for a- walk!		 
 
Barked: Thu Nov 8, '07 7:02am PST 
George, responsible breeders also breed to improve the breed, not just to produce puppies to sell. Someone breeding six litters a year is not breeding to get a new show or performance dog, because even if each breeding worked out exactly the way she hoped, she couldn't keep one from each litter. She's producing those puppies only to sell.

Don't misunderstand me; it's an excellent thing that she requires puppies to be returned to her if their buyers can't keep them. It's important that they're well-socialized. But what kinds of health checks does she do before she breeds a dog? What kind of screening of potential puppy buyers? With six litters a year, does she really have buyers lined up for most puppies before they're born? And is she really prepared for the possibility of a bad year, in which more than one or two dogs need to come back to her?

Breeding dogs is like most things, the line between responsible breeder and irresponsible isn't always quite as cut and dried in reality as in theory. But six litters is a lot, and whatever else she's doing right, that's commercial production of puppies.

That doesn't make Sully any less of a cutie, though!
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Arrow

wait for me!		 
 
Barked: Thu Nov 8, '07 7:04am PST 
I agree, Sammi. Your breeder should have been more forthcoming.
You see, we got Arrow second hand. And after dealing with lots of health issues with her I decided to call her breeder. She was horrified at how it was we came to be her owners. However, she was also happy that WE were the ones that took her (after listing the litany of health stuff we've gone thru to fix her).
Your breeder should at least attempt to help you out too. Ours is kind of insistant Arrow has giardia, and not anything else but gave us the dosage we should give her. We know it isn't, but it was something. I do know some breeders can be touchy when you mention a health issue in one of their dogs that could potentially be a genetic problem. But the fact yours didn't ask you anything more than "what dog do you want" kind of says she isn't interested one of the better breeders.
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Cookies 'n'- Creme- (1998-2011)

Heart of a lion,- soul of a lamb		 
 
Barked: Thu Nov 8, '07 7:44pm PST 
I'm pretty dure I came for bad breeder. This faily bought me from somebody named Jeannes Burkett with plans to breed me (proably for money). I'm NOT show quality, much less breeding quality. What good breeder would sell a non-show quality pup to somone who just looked at me as money-making-machine? I have a M8UCH better family now!
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Addy, CGC

Let's go for a- walk!		 
 
Barked: Fri Nov 9, '07 6:16am PST 
Cookie, I'm so glad you found a good family, and weren't forced to spend your life as a puppy machine!
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Ferris

Butterfly Ears		 
 
Barked: Fri Nov 9, '07 6:59am PST 


I would like to explain this a little from my personal experience. The first thing that a reputable breeder has to do is aquire top dogs. A nice show prospect male is typically around 3,000-6,000. Then, you have to show him which almost always means traveling. The average cost to finish a dog is 1500.

Next, you have to obtain top quality bitches. A bitch is typically around 4000-8,000. For me this meant a trip to Europe so you have to add on travel and hotel fees.

Most dogs have strong restrictions on them when you buy them as show prospects. For example, my friend purchased a female and had to split the litter with the breeder. From this bitch she only ever sold one puppy.

You also have added show costs which are hard to calculate such as purchasing all the equipment you need such as show crates, tables and dryers. Plus don't forget we have to wear nice suits that we can't wear out in public so that alone is hundreds of dollars.

The goal is to have the best possible dogs and when that happens, the show costs add up. My friend bred a superb boy and showing him has cost her more than 80,000! No I did not mean 8,000. That doesn't include the 6 or so other dogs she has shown and finished. He is a multiple BISS and BIS winner. In the past 5 years, since she started breeding, she's sold 3 puppies at 1500 each.

Although there is no money value on it, something has to be said for the hoops people have to go thru in order to aquire nice dogs. I can't even begin to tell you about all the restrictions and rules and whatnot that goes into it. It's worse than the out of pocket expenses.

Yes, somewhere down the road profit can be made. But that should not be the goal! Should a reputable breeder begin charging less as time goes on so that they can't make any profit? Personally, I don't think so because I don't feel the lives of the pups are worth small change. 2000 for a companion that willbe with you for 12 years is not a lot of money to ask. Besides, if the breeder is reputable, the money the make will just be going back into the dogs anyhow.
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Tia

Did you say- Ball?		 
 
Barked: Fri Nov 9, '07 12:31pm PST 
I really appreciate all the information in this post. I think it is great information especially for those who are thinking about breeding. I support what has been said, but I do have to wonder if these expectations of most buyers to actually find a breeder who is this "reputable" are even the tiniest bit realistic.

My experience in rescue tells me that most people out there simply want a dog, with a few stipulations as to temperament and size and stuff like "non-shedding". How invested are they going to be in supporting breeders who are doling out the kind of money that was mentioned in the above post, if they can get that "dog" for $300 from the paper, or better yet (for them) almost for free from a neighbor?

For those who care about the cause, having a discussion about what actually makes a reputable breeder is great, but how do we convince the average person that dogs should be bred as specifically as was noted above, or that they should even have a desire support purebred breeding?

I recently had this discussion over coffee at work and it was mentioned that dogs have been producing pups in many varieties for thousands of years without all the fuss. The term "eugenics" was talked about and the movie "Best in Show" was brought up, and the topic went on to mock purebred breeding.

Frustrating for me, but also a reflection of reality and common attitude.
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Addy, CGC

Let's go for a- walk!		 
 
Barked: Fri Nov 9, '07 1:53pm PST 
Tia, the answer is education, education, education. No, it's not going to happen overnight, and yes, it's going to be tough to convince people not to go to the BYB who's advertising puppies for $300 in the newspaper, and you can go see the pup and its mom and dad for yourself.

But that's already a better choice than buying from a pet store or over the internet, and let's not forget that it is better, even though it's not going all the way to where we want people to be.

Puppies from responsible breeders may be more expensive than some BYB puppies, but they're generally less expensive, significantly so, than pet store puppies or puppies bought over the internet from a high-profile mill. It's not nearly so hard to make the case that puppies should be raised in homes, not kennels, and that a puppy buyer is better off paying less for this healthier, better-raised puppy who does not have to be shipped in cargo in an airplane. Or that if you can be more flexible about your specific needs (i.e., it might not work if you're in the northeast and need a small dog), you can get a good dog at a shelter. (This ought to be a particularly effective point with people who mock purebred breeding.)

What we need is to get the big players on board with this. Not PETA, because they're opposed to the existence of domestic animals, but HSUS and ASPCA. HSUS has apparently finally seen the light on No Kill as a goal, that is, the publication of Redemption has finally pushed them to do the math and see that, if we can bump the percentage of pets adopted from shelters from 20% to 30%, and lower the birth rate slightly, the shelters will be nearly empty. Get the other 70% of new pet additions, the ones that won't be from shelters, shifted from BYBs and puppy mills to responsible breeders who screen, temperament match, and take lifetime responsibility for the well-being of the dogs they breed, and the shelters will stay empty. If we can get HSUS and ASPCA to make that last conection, and they get behind the push for buying only from responsible breeders when you can't find the right pet in a shelter, we can make huge progress.
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