[Page 14] The Reputable Breeder

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The Reputable Breeder

(Page 14 of 17: Viewing entries 131 to 140)
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skip

If I have it- wrong someone- will tell me

Barked: Sat Nov 17, '07 11:12pm PST


	***Skip, no one has suggested that the existence or non-existence of a waiting list is the sole criterion for determining whether a breeder is responsible or not. * Addy my comment to what was said is simply to point out that in my opinion and experience a responsible breeder does not need to establish a waiting list in choosing to breed reponsibly regardless of the possible benefit in establishing such a list.. *However, it is one of the characteristics of a responsible breeder that they breed infrequently and have people asking for puppies from their dogs--and they often won't breed until they have a committed waiting list, people willing to put deposits on puppies from the planned litter. * Again I would have to disagree with the premise that one of the characteristics of a responsible responsible breeder is to have people asking for puppies and who are on a waiting list willing to put deposits on them and in addition only with U.S cash. I provided one example to which no one has challenged. In addition under what circumstances does one persons ability verses another to reasonable care for and whelp a litter reach the point of being ir-responsible. I can certainly understand where one person or group of people may be capable of whelping 4 litters per year whereas another person would struggle or be less than adequate in whelping one litter per year. *By itself, having a litter without a waiting list is not proof of a bad breeder. * my point exactly . *By itself, taking PayPal isn't, either. * I agree and my point exactly. **By itself, breeding untitled dogs isn't.* I can also go as far to agree with that concept to the point that working,herding,live stock guardian breeds,and hunting breeds can be bred with consideration for average or preferably above average abilities and tested by a knowledgable breeder or person who can make such determinations. I agree from the perspective that no one organization or group of people hold the exclusive correctness or standard for a particular breed which further complicates such opinions.. A responsible breeder with extensive knowledge on breed characteristics that are needed to maintain and preferrably better the breed in all aspects need not seek organization titles to justify a responsible breeding. For example there are many ranchers,farmers,and other experts of particular breeds who are quite capable of making sound responsible decisions on breeding stock without the need for titles. Yes in many cases it can be a plus to have certain titles and other the hand mean nothing and to some a negative value depending on the critera in awarding such titles.. By itself, an overly-polished or overly cutesy website isn't proof of a bad breeder. Again my semtiments exactly. *By itself, the absence of clear statements of appropriate health tests on the website isn't. * Again I agree as long as they will be made available upon request in making a serious decision to acquire a dog *Nor is advertising in unlikely places--by itself. * No disgreement there LOL *But they're all red flags that raise concerns, and the more of those characteristics a breeder has, the less likely it is that you're dealing with a responsible breeder. *** Every single reference point to ones priorities ,concerns, or individual desires in what is important can be a red flag if you want to go that deep. I might think only having a cerf screening wthout also including the now available DNA screening is ir-responsible and raises a big red flag. I may also consider not breeding for working ability or herding ability in such breeds is ir-responsible in bettering the breed. The point is a person has to decide on which elements in the entire process that is a important factor which triggers describing or judging a breeder not responsible or on a living breathing scale simply less responsible. A responsible breeder does not need a web site at all for that matter. In closing the point that I take issue with is the way in which some lists make statements like but not limited to the following and in esnece speak in terms of absolutes.. A responsible breeder does not and will not take paypal or credit cards for payment. A responsible breeder will have a waiting list before choosing to breed or otherwise is a ir-responsible breeder. A responsible breeder does not and will not advertise in xxx medium. A responsible breeder has a web site with graphics and wording that is simple and graphically clean or otherwise is not a responsible breeder. The most responsible breeders do not or will not have have web sites A responsible breeder will have a fully detailed information web site. Responsible breeders never take less than the original advertised price. A responsible breeder will include a 12,24,48,128,600 month health guarentee as anything less is indicative of a ir-responsible breeder. A responsible will offer a refund before 2 weeks,2 months, or two years or otherwise fail to be a responsible breeder. A responsible breeder will always spay or neuter the dog before giving it to the new owner with little or no exceptions. A responsible breeder will always require the dog to be spayed or neutered by 6,12, or 24 months with no exceptions. A responsible breeder of working breed dogs would never sell dogs to pet homes expecially without proven knowledge of the breed. A responsible breeder always participates in breed rescue. Responsible breeders will always require a written contractual agreement for the owner to check in with the breeder periodically and in addition allow for a courtesy inspection of the dog at various points. A responsible breeder never ships seman. A responsible breeder never ships dogs regardless of age. A responsible breeder always checks at least three references before approving a potential buyer. I am sure everyone agrees with this list to include the many otherthings that I failed to list. Edited by author Sat Nov 17, '07 11:28pm PST

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Addy, CGC

Let's go for a- walk!

Barked: Sun Nov 18, '07 2:55pm PST


	A 12 or 24 month health guarantee is absolutely worthless for many genetic defects (they don't present themselves that young), and is a warning sign of a breeder who either doesn't know what they're doing, or hopes the buyer doesn't. DNA tests exist for some eye problems but not others. In my own breed, Chinese Cresteds, there's a DNA test for the prcd gene (which causes progressive retinal atrophy), but there is at least one and probably two other genes which also cause PRA, and for which no genetic marker has been identified yet. Absolutely, DNA testing is necessary for problems for which it exists, but for some things, CERF is still the best we can do at the moment. Even in working lines of working breeds, not every puppy will have the drive and will be suited for a working/competition home. The right pet home can be very good for these pups--and this is part of matching the right puppy with the right home. It's part of the reason for all that screening. My sister wanted a Lab because she wanted a running partner. A big part of what the breeder wanted to know about my sister was, what was her previous dog experience and was she really prepared to cope with a high-energy big dog like a Lab? Well, her previous dogs were a Lab and a Golden mix--and we grew up with a border collie. So, yes, she knew what having a Lab meant. But there's no question that my sister's home is a pet home, not a working/hunting/competition home--and no question either, that Stella is very well suited to this pet home. (If anything, not quite as highp-energy as my sister had hoped.) A responsible breeder knows that, no matter how careful he is in his breeding choices, not every puppy will necessarily have the personality expected of the breed, and will place the puppies based on what's right for the individual puppy, not based on an abstract idea of what's right for the typical dog of that breed.

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skip

If I have it- wrong someone- will tell me

Barked: Sun Nov 18, '07 8:20pm PST


	Thats interesting because that list I posted came from several other sites who have lists of what makes for a responsible breeder. I again would have to agree that the judgement is all in the details. I too disagree with many if not most of those points that I compiled from the various lists. And to add to your point Addy sometimes it takes several months for a dog to physically and mentally mature enough in establishing or determining if desirable working,herding,hunting, ect drive or ability is within the reach of ones particular goals. Edited by author Sun Nov 18, '07 8:32pm PST

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Byron

Small dogs can- have BIG jobs!

Barked: Sun Nov 18, '07 8:53pm PST


	Skip, I personally think that list is pretty silly and if it was posted in those particular words online, that person probably knows little about the real world of responsible breeding. I object to using always and never. While many of the things in that list could be used as guidelines, in the end it is up to the purchaser to evaluate the individual breeder.

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Pugsley

I Might Be Small- But I Have It- All!

Barked: Sun Nov 18, '07 9:09pm PST


	You know what? Everyone has a different opioion on what a reputable breeder is or should be. Me personally? I don't care if they have a waiting list 3 miles long or if they don't. What do I care about? Some major ones for me are if they sell "pet puppies" with spay/neuter contract, state they will take the dog back no matter what (not that I would ever give the dog back, it just shows they are taking responsibility for the dog they brought into this world), that they answer any questions I have, that they ASK ME questions (I want to make sure they want to give there puppies to the best home possible), Maybe breeds one or two litters a year, there dogs are treated like family above all else and health testing. I don't care where they are placing ads for there puppies, they can place them in a newspaper for all I care as long as they do the things that I posted above I would think of getting a puppy from them. But, maybe someone else feels they should have a waiting list and if they don't they aren't the breeder for them... That's fine. Maybe they also don't care about taking the dog back... That's fine too. As long as the person isn't selling 15 different breeds and have 20 litters of puppies ready to go right there... I wouldn't tell someone that the breeder they went to was any less reputable then the one I choose. Edited by author Sun Nov 18, '07 9:14pm PST

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JaVa

I'm too cool for- a motto

Barked: Mon Nov 19, '07 8:08am PST


	Pugs, do you really think it's fine if they won't take a dog back? Those are the dogs that end up in shelters. That's a deal-breaker for me.

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skip

If I have it- wrong someone- will tell me

Barked: Mon Nov 19, '07 8:52am PST


	JaVA that would be asumming the owner did not find another responsible owner for the dog and again the details on why the dog would need rehomed. I do understand your concerns being active in rescue and being a education officer board member for a rescue group. I too think in most cases a responsible breeder would allow for taking one of there dogs back although there are situations where I could understand exceptions.

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JaVa

I'm too cool for- a motto

Barked: Mon Nov 19, '07 9:34am PST


	The Reputable Breeder would REQUIRE the dog be returned to them because they take a vested interest in the kind of home their dogs live in. Like I said, that's a deal breaker for me.

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Gray Dawn- Treader

Don't Tread on- me

Barked: Mon Nov 19, '07 11:03am PST


	My guidelines for a breeder are listed in the beginning of this thread. Although, my mistress would buy from a breeder who did everything except the waiting list right, even if they didn't support rescue/shelters. Like most dogs on here, I have more respect for a breeder who does supprt shelters, but it's not an absolute. The info I have posted is a result of my mistress's careful studying and yearning to become a responsible breeder. I'm overjoyed that it has helped some people, and my mistress has learned some things she didn't know as well.

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Addy, CGC

Let's go for a- walk!

Barked: Mon Nov 19, '07 2:30pm PST


	Refusing to take a dog back when the original buyer can't keep it is one of the few things that, all by itself, is proof of a not-reputable breeder. Responsible breeders care deeply what happens to their dogs, and if they need to be rehomed, want to do that themselves or at the very least participate in the process and approve the new home.

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