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Is this balanced?

This is the place to share your best homemade dog food and treat recipes with each other! Remember to use caution if your pet has allergies and to make any diet changes gradually so that your dog's stomach can adjust to the new foods you are introducing.

  
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Member Since
11/09/2013
 
 
Barked: Sat Nov 9, '13 7:04am PST 
Hi, I'm new to homecooking. First, I fed raw diet but now my dog can't handle it well anymore, so I cook for her now for about 3 months. So i just wonder if these recipes are balanced? My dog has about 93 lb and she eats about 1.8 lb a day. She is 2.5 years old and she doesn't have any medical problems (she only had some ear issues month ago), she doesn't handle too much grains in her food well and sometimes she has digestive problems (runny or mucus stool).

Chicken recipe
3.5 lb chicken thighs
1 lb chicken, pork, beef meat and fat
2 lb beef offal (usually liver, sometimes kidney and spleen)
1.5 lb vegetables (carrot, beetroot, broccoli, pears, apples, lettuce, spinach, tomatoes...)
2 lb cooked grains (rice, oatmeal, cornmeal, pasta)

Pork recipe
4.5 lb pork gullet
1 lb pork, beef or chicken meat and fat
2 lb beef offal
1.5 lb vegetables
2 lb cooked grains

Pork and fish recipe
4.5 lb pork gullet
2 lb beef offal
1.5 lb fish (sardines or salmon)
1.5 lb vegetables
2 lb cooked grains

Duck recipe
5.5 lb duck (whole)
2 lb beef offal
1.5 lb vegetables
2 lb cooked grains

Beef recipe
5.5 lb beef meat, gullet, heart or lung
2 lb beef offal
1.5 lb vegetables
2 lb cooked grains


I also add raw meaty bones to every recipe like: chicken heads and backs, pork head and spine, beef "soup" bones, turkey necks etc., but I give them raw. Sometimes she also gets dehydrated green tripe and dehydrated rabbit ears. I give her salmon, olive, sunflower and pumpkin oil and algae suplement. Sometimes she also gets milk, yogurt or egg.

Edited by author Sat Nov 9, '13 7:09am PST

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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Sat Nov 9, '13 3:10pm PST 
Is the meat all raw and then the veggies and grains cooked? I cannot imagine offering up cooked gullet, it is all cartilage isn't it?

The red meat recipes minus about 3/4 of the liver would be okay. Chicken and duck aren't as nutritious as red meat. Perhaps that is why your dog doesn't do well on raw, too much liver? You need a very small amount, about 1/2 ounce per 10 ounces of meaty stuff. An equal amount of spleen and/or kidney is fine but no more liver than that. Change all the recipes to 5-8 ounces of liver and 5-8 ounces of other organ with the other pound being more meat and eggs and if you aren't using other organ have that be meat and/or egg as well.

Try using more processed grain like white rice and pasta rather than the wholesome whole grains that are better for humans.
Try no grain at all, just the meat and veggies.
Try white rice and no veggies.
Try no veggies or grains. If you are feeding 1/4-1/2 meaty bones there may be enough bone to firm up the stool without plant fiber.
-Maybe the type and amount of fiber bother her.

Try removing fat so overall she gets less fat.
Try less food overall.
-Too much fat or too much food can be hard on a dog's gut.

Try fewer meaty bones.
Try only offering the easier meaty bones like the chicken and turkey ones.
Try grinding the meaty bones.
Try using egg shell with the veggies and grains rather than meaty bones. 1/2 tsp of powdered egg shell per pound of food is the rule of thumb.
-Sometimes too much bone irritates or is difficult for the dog to digest. Max does better on small chicken bones than pork/lamb/beef/turkey for instance.

Keep a journal of food and output to see if you can figure out what triggers the upset tummy episodes. Could be pork neck is fine but pork ribs just don't get chomped enough to sit well in the gut or oatmeal is awful but pasta works well or kidney is awful but spleen terrific. Have found out Max gets horrible ear problems with sardines, eye goo on grains, too much fat causes amazing gas and he cannot digest cooked cartilage at all. Ginger doesn't like raw basil and that is it so far!
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Member Since
11/09/2013
 
 
Barked: Sun Nov 10, '13 3:16am PST 
Thanks for your respond smile

I cook meat for about 10 minutes, grains and vegetables are also cooked.
Gullet is not just cartilage, it has plenty of meat on it and it has a piece of tongue, heart and sometimes also lung attached.

OK, I will reduce the amount of liver.
I rotate the recipes, usually she eats pork recipe.
When she was on raw diet she ate 5% liver. She ate too much grass all the time, than she started to have runny and mucus poop and sometimes she also barfed. So I went to homecoked diet and she is doing much better on this (eating small amount of grass, she doesn't barf, and only a few times she had runny or mucus poop).

I already tried not feeding any grains and vegetables, or feeding smaller aomunt of it, but then it was the same that on raw food. I don't want to reduce amount of grains, I'm afraid that she will have problems with digestion and if I reduce the amount of vegetables, I must feed more grains and then I thinks she will get allergy.
I can change type of grains.

OK, I will reduce the amount of food on 1.5 lb, because she can lose some weight. I also can reduce the amount of fat.

She get's bones because of dental health and she also loves them. I will give more chicken and turkey bones. She doesn't get bones and cooked food in the same meal, because she has problems with that. She gets meal just of meaty bones, if they aren't very meaty I give her yogurt, egg or raw meat with them.

I don't know why does she has issues, and I'm trying to figure out that. It is interesting, she eats one recipe for about 1 week and usually she doesn't have any issues, than she has runny poop one time, and then it is OK again. She digest cartilage well, she also can eat sardines and some fat with no problems. She just have problems with parsley, she pee a lot after she eats it.


I'm sorry for bad english, it is not my first language red face
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Sun Nov 10, '13 8:43am PST 
Sounds like you have thought of just about every variation that could cause trouble that I thought up!

A pork heavy diet is likely low in zinc and possibly iron. Even if Max gets 3/4 lean beef and 1/4 chicken bony stuff he is low on zinc. Possibly work a tiny amount of something like canned oysters into the diet? To fill Max's gap he needs all of an ounce of oysters a week and to completely fill his needs he would only need 4 ounces a week.

Remember those meaty bones are an essential part of her diet. Without them there isn't enough phosphorus or calcium! She doesn't need much, just 3 ounces of actual bone consumed per day which might be half a large turkey neck or a small chicken quarter.

If you are cooking for a whole week and she gets an upset tummy at the end of the week perhaps the food is going bad if you store it in the refrigerator. I was comfortable cooking 4 days of food at a time, that fit into the large pan and didn't take up too much room in the refrigerator. Even so Sassy didn't seem to like it as well on the last day as the first.
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Member Since
11/09/2013
 
 
Barked: Sun Nov 10, '13 11:28am PST 
I think there is no way I could buy canned oysters in our country, I didn't find them anywhere.
Aren't liver rich in iron and zinc? I know that they are rich in vitamin A but how much liver is really too much? Is there no way I could balance iron and zinc with giving a little more liver and not overdose vitamin A?

Yes, I know that. She gets about 1 lb bones a week and I think, that's enough. She also gets egg shell sometimes.

I store food in a fridge for 4 or 5 days, rest of food I freeze. Maybe this could be the problem, I will freeze more food next time.
[notify]
Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Sun Nov 10, '13 3:00pm PST 
I was able to make up a rough approximation of the pork plus the pork and fish diets on nutritiondata.com. The site isn't reliable now and I wasn't able to put it into tracking to directly compare to Max's requirements. I put in all the by products that are at the upper part of the animal and the corn flour is raw so put it in at half the weight as water would be added during cooking so might be double when cooked up.

The problem with putting in more liver is it is extremely high in vitamin A and the copper:iron:zinc ratio is skewed in a way that doesn't work properly. Adding an ounce of beef liver to 1/16th of the recipe means my Max would be getting 3000% of his vitamin A, 200% of copper, 150% of his iron and only 40% of his zinc for instance. I am having a horrible time with ND and going to report this not particularly useful information. This is for 1/16 of the recipe plus 2x the liver I suggested putting in and too many calories a day for Max.

I don't much like using oysters as feeding something once or twice a week in such a small amount means it will be forgotten and use a zinc supplement instead. I would add in about 240mg of a zinc supplement to the whole recipe I made up and call it good.

Aha! Went back to ND and the recipe finally added the liver as I planned and I was able to add it to tracking. 2200% vitamin A, 150% copper, 115% iron and zinc was extremely low 31% for my dog. A lot of the vitamin A is precursor stuff that is fine to have in excess as the body doesn't make A from it unless it is needed. I also didn't care for the protein content, quite low at only just over a gram per pound of Max. Usually Max gets 1.5 grams of protein per pound in his raw diet. Perhaps it is all the by products I put in the recipe, perhaps your choices are higher in protein. I know chitterlings, pork intestine, isn't high in protein and that jowl is mostly fat. And... I am unable to change the amounts of those to see what happens.

If this comes up correctly it will have 1 pound of beef liver and read it is 22 servings.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/recipe/2985093/2

I n closing I would just change the amount of liver fed and find a human zinc supplement to add 240mg for the huge amount in my recipe or half of that for the more reasonable amount of food in a single recipe.
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Member Since
11/09/2013
 
 
Barked: Mon Nov 11, '13 8:25am PST 
Thank you very very much for this smile

Other vitamins and minerals and also carbohydrates and fat are balanced?
Also meaty bones she gets have some proteins and they are not count in recipe in nutrition data. Maybe then is enough?

I will look for zinc supplement then. I hope I find it somewhere.

Next time she will get pork recipe, I will change it:

4.5 lb pork gullet
1 lb pork, beef or chicken meat and fat (she will get chicken skin in this batch)
1 lb beef offal (liver)
1.5 lb vegetables (I don't know yet, I think I will give her green peppers, pears and beetroot)
2 lb cooked grains (oatmeal)
For meaty bones she will get 1.5 lb raw chicken heads and 1 lb beef soup bones (she doesn't eat them whole). She will also get some yogurt and maybe 2 or 3 eggs. I'm not going to add oil because chicken skin is fatty.

Better?
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Mon Nov 11, '13 8:44am PST 
I haven't time to wrestle with ND right now but yes, all the vitamins were just fine on the combined recipe I made up and of course calcium and phosphorus were very low. I put in all the vegetables and grains and fish you mentioned so this particular one could be low somewhere if you aren't using them all but as it is for a week and next week you will be cooking some different combination it will be fine. Add the fish next week, the combination gave a very nice omega 3 ratio.
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Member Since
11/09/2013
 
 
Barked: Mon Nov 11, '13 10:12am PST 
I was planing to make beef recipe week after that, because I will get some free beef meat soon, so I must clean the freezer out. But I will add salmon oil in this batch, so she will get enough omega 3. But how much salmon oil per pound of meat is enough?
And I am wondering something. How much omega 3 has farmed salmon? I can't get wild one and I think farmed is not as nutritious as the wild is and it also doesn't have same omega 3 amount (something like difference between grain-fed beef and grass-fed beef). I can also get only salmon heads and tails, other things are too expensive for that big dog. So because of everything I usually buy sardines (they are a little bit more expensive than salmon heads and tails are, but they are not farmed and they are easier to cook - I don't need to debone them).
[notify]
Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Mon Nov 11, '13 2:55pm PST 
I put farmed salmon into the recipe, it works out very nicely. Sardines are higher in omega 3 than farmed salmon so those weeks she would be getting more. There is an upper limit you wouldn't want to cross but it is pretty far up there I think. Add fish oil to the meal just before serving. Refined oils have fragile omega 3 fatty acids that break down fast.

You bone salmon heads? That is a job. Are they too small for her to eat raw? If she would eat them I would offer them raw, one a day as her bony meal. Max won't eat them though.
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