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Cooked prey model raw, can you give input? Are my dogs safe?

This is the place to share your best homemade dog food and treat recipes with each other! Remember to use caution if your pet has allergies and to make any diet changes gradually so that your dog's stomach can adjust to the new foods you are introducing.

  
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Member Since
04/06/2012		 
 
Barked: Fri Nov 2, '12 2:37am PST 
Good evening!

I would greatly appreciate some help with h ow I am feeding my dogs! Sorry for short style of typing,  keyboard is semi-broken! 

To sum up, I do not believe  in raw, we are doing a cooked version of prey model raw!  Basically my "crew" gets cooked meat daily as their main  meals! Meat is cooked rare!
We do not support inhumane fa ctory farms! Dogs are getting all kinds of meat: Usually g round beef, pork, we do chicken, lots of truly feral/wild  boar meat! Throughout week dogs are getting various "cuts"  of these meats, for example one day ground beef, one day  maybe a roast, a whole chicken boiled, pork steaks! Point  is we try to mix up! 
Now for organ part of diet: every  few days we cook up a portion of organs to go with mea t, and I follow this guide for that :
"sample daily cooke d diet" from dogaware!
http://dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html#co oked
basically it's an ounce of organ for every 8oz meat!

From my own research I have formed the opinion that we  don't need to give organ meat every day (following the co ncept that over course of longer time dog will get nutrien ts needed, as opposed to all in one day), and I am comfo rtable with this opinion for now , of course I welcome an y opinions or advice of your own and want to hear them! 

Bone part is tricky they don't always like taste:  wha t we do since we avoid raw bones is we cook bones, usual ly chicken, we cook until bones can be crushed between fin gers, make into paste-like and put about 10% by weight int o food, for example if dogs get 20 oz of meat each they  get about 2 oz bones ground up!
Honestly I admittedly hav e been lax with bone part of their diet, I don't include  it everyday and only give them about once a week! I am  fixing this very fast and will start including 10% bone ev ery few days or daily if need be as opposed to previous  once a week or longer!


Basically I just want to make  sure dogs are healthy and are getting enough of everything  they need! Obviously bone needs to get included more often  but other than that is anything else problematic here? I  have offered vegetables and grains to no avail! I really  believe I am feeding them wonderfully yet welcome your crit icism big grin Thank you!
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Hoyt

*Baby Blackdog*		 
 
Barked: Fri Nov 2, '12 7:01am PST 
Wild boar contains a parasite called Trichinella. It's particularly nasty. If you insist on feeding wild boar you need to first freeze the meat for a minimum of a couple of months and then cook it through thoroughly.

I have no idea what balanced ratios for cooked foods are as I only feed raw so I cannot tell you if what you are feeding is adequate or not. Hopefully someone else will come along. I do know cooking changes nutritional value.

Most raw feeders I know, myself included, do not feed organ everyday. There is no problem with knocking out the allotted amounts in a serving or two a week as long as when you do you are giving enough to balance the dogs diet out overall. Go a few days, you need to feed a few days worth of organ. Go a week, you need to feed a weeks worth of organ. I'm sure it goes without saying secreting organ needs to be included in your ratios.


I know nothing about cooked bones as I would never feed them, so again, hopefully someone else will come along. I will say my dogs have never shown any reservation diving into any of their bones, my little dogs included, so I'm wondering if it's the processing and unnatural form you're presenting them in that's causing your dogs to be so turned off by them? Come to think of it I don't think I've ever seen a dog snub bone before......kidney or liver sure, but never bone so it certainly makes me wonder what's going on there... thinking


I am glad to hear your plan to make a bit more of an effort as far as the bone is concerned, it is incredibly important to the dogs diet.



I do not believe in feeding anything a dogs body cannot process so we personally don't feed any fruits, vegetables or grains. Their teeth aren't designed to eat them, their GI tract isn't designed to digest or get anything out of them, so unless you want to add them to help your dogs lose weight or in a just for fun manner, I wouldn't waste your time feeding them.
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Bam-Bam, CGC

Lil' Rubble		 
 
Barked: Fri Nov 2, '12 9:07am PST 
Just for semantics clarification... There is no such thing as "cooked prey model raw." If it's prey model raw, then it's raw and based on what a dog would naturally eat (which is not cooked), and if it's cooked, then it's probably going to need to include some supplements and/or fruits and veggies to make up for what is killed/lost by the cooking process. Otherwise, I can't really comment on whether it's balanced.
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!		 
 
Barked: Fri Nov 2, '12 9:44am PST 
I would think cooking the wild boar well would be fine, freezing won't do anything cooking thoroughly won't do.

The cooked chicken bone is a very interesting idea and I would try it at least once if I ever have to cook for Max. Do use any liquid left over as well in case some calcium is leaching during the long cooking. I would probably run the bone through the blender as well. You could make this stuff up and freeze in the correct amount for each batch of food you make up so it is easier to remember to add in.

While different skeletal muscles do have slightly different nutrient profiles I wouldn't be concerned with feeding rib meat versus leg meat so much as getting some heart, tongue, lung, gizzard and such every once in a while. Not much, just a little.

You might be interested in looking through the newsletters on B-Naturals. If Max had to eat cooked food I would feeding more like 3/4 cooked meat/egg/organ/fish+1/4 cooked/pureed low calorie veggies like celery/broccoli/zucchini/cabbage/greens+900 mg of bone meal per pound. When I run the numbers I am not getting enough phosphorus from egg shell for Max so bone meal looks like a better supplement in his case. If dogs need more calories per pound then Max [he only needs 15 calories per pound!] then egg shell may work just fine. I would want the veggies for stool bulk and I would use mostly red meats as you are doing.
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/low-glycemic/

If you want numbers then look at Steve Brown's book 'Unlocking the Dog's Ancestral Diet'. You can read parts of it on either Amazon or Google Books, don't remember which one. This sounds like what you are looking for. Very interesting stuff, a lot about the various fatty acids that might be difficult to get unless we feed whole prey.
http://dogaware.com/diet/bookreviews.html

Your diet is fine for now as long as the dogs aren't constipated or have loose stool from the limited amount of bulk in the diet. Keep studying and tweaking it to make it even better. Do look into using Sedona's 'Balancing the Diet in 21 Easy Steps' as it shows you how to use nutritiondata to figure out how much of what is in the food you are making.
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Trigger

*Blackdog*		 
 
Barked: Fri Nov 2, '12 11:11am PST 
Maxwell, the poster specifically points out that they cook to "rare" only though which is why the freezing would be necessary here.
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Rexy

I dig in mud- puddles!		 
 
Barked: Fri Nov 2, '12 12:41pm PST 
It's my understanding that freezing is not guaranteed to kill the parasite that causes trichinosis in wild animals (but apparently freezing pork for 20 days at -22F is supposed to do the trick).

The ONLY way I would be feeding feral/wild hog would be if it was thoroughly cooked (very well done).
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!		 
 
Barked: Fri Nov 2, '12 1:12pm PST 
Agree, I wouldn't count on freezing unless this wild boar was stored in a commercial freezer that has been inspected and is known to hold that temperature.
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Kolbe

Where can I run- today?		 
 
Barked: Fri Nov 2, '12 2:28pm PST 
I would mostly be concerned about calcium being leeched from the bones with the way you are pre-processing and cooking them. I would also try to find out how much if any nutrients from the meat and organs are removed with cooking, if so, how to get those nutrients back into the diet (I don't know much about this). Lastly, I agree with the wild boar thing -- don't mess around with that one.
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!		 
 
Barked: Fri Nov 2, '12 3:30pm PST 
I think if the broth is acidic then surely calcium will leach out. That is how bone broth is made. I don't know if cooking bones until mushy makes for an acidic stock or not. Doubtful as calcium carbonate in water makes a basic solution. Either way I would use the broth as well as the bone just to be sure.
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Charlie

The world is my- food bowl!		 
 
Barked: Fri Nov 2, '12 5:09pm PST 
If you're worried about the bone fixture not being balanced, you could always add in a bone meal. It sort of sounds like what you're feeding anyway, and it has a guaranteed analysis of the calcium/phosphorus ratio.
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