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Libby

Ready for- anything,- anytime.

Barked: Sat Dec 17, '11 11:31pm PST


	I am so happy to come across Dogster. While I didn't read much around yet, it looks like I might find some usefull info and help here for Libby. She is our newest one, rescue GS and she is a sweetheart but little did I know what was waitting for us. I had very little info on her, only that she had heartworms and she jumps fences. And I only saw her head in the picture. The rescue lady brought her to our house to make sure she likes our 17 years old kitty. That was about 6 months ago, she was starved, dehydrated(if you only new what she looked like),with heart worms, hook worms, intestinal infection, limping and really bad diarrhea. Smelly and dirty. First 2 days she just drank and drank,was affraid to eat. I had to cook for her rice and turkey for weeks and feed her every few hours. Even now she tend to be little nervous eater and I feed her in the bedroom in her bed.She is comfy there. She went through all the treatments and lots of money that helped her get where she is today. Happy, very energetic, high strong Alpha female that was initially agressive to our Lab Zeus-there was no problem with the kitty thou.Kitty is source of very rare treats! The occasional heairball and tootsies from liter box! She got over the agression with Zeus and they are buddies now and even sleep close together. Zeus is adopted too and it is nice to see him act like a dog, he went through hell too,now he is happy outgoing and active! Long story short, Libby never tried to jump the fence, she did scale it the first day, looking up and down when we first show her the back yard. She doesn't even want to be there unless I'm there too. Libby listens pretty good indors, outside it is another matter.It's like she has ADD. Too busy to sniff and track after bunnies etc.Get her attention is hard. Get her to sit, she ignores me, looking around like she doesn't hear me. It takes her few minutes and firm voice to sit. I have to literally wear her out before I can make her do things, but only outside. She wants to run and jump and play. She is about two and half and she is mouthy. In the playfull way and NOW gentle. She was rought at first. She leads me around the house at times when she is too raudy and wants to play. I trained my Aussie in past and it was a breeze compare to this GS. Is it b/c she is older or maybe she needs different training style? We think that she might be actually younger than we were told. She is still lanky and waddles around like a lion. But otside she trots like a horse. It is so amazing to see her. She just glides, it looks like she doesn't touch the ground. Two days ago I had a cop K-9 SUV stopped next to me when on walk at night. He just said Hi and how much he loves that GS. The cop lives in the neigborhood and saw me walking my dogs meny times before. I thought it was pretty cool, Libby is pretty enough for cop to stop. We have loong way to go before Libby gets trained right, if ever but we love this dog and all our animals, and I know Libby would be dead by now if we didn't take her. She is my first GS and first female and what a difference compare to males! I am also looking around for some professional evaluation on Libby's training. The cop recommended someone so we will see. If anybody has any helpfull info, I would apreciate it. I will read around little every day and I'm sure I will find good info here. I would like to apologize for bad spelling and grammar too. I am from Czech republic originally.

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Onyx

The one and Oni

Barked: Sun Dec 18, '11 3:35am PST


	Welcome, Libby! Pup pal request on its way Sounds like you're off to a great start. Glad to hear she's doing better. GSDs are a slow maturing breed and it generally takes 2-3 years before they're out of puppyhood, depending on the lines, so it may be a while before she calms down. Some exercise before a training session does help some dogs focus. Also make sure you're introducing distractions slowly. Prefect new behaviors indoors where she's more focused before moving outside. What training methods are you using? Clicker/marker training generally works well for teaching new behaviors. Make sure you have a reward that makes obedience worth her while (food, toy, whatever she likes) and keep training sessions short and fun.

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Sabi

When the night- closes in I will- be there

Barked: Mon Dec 19, '11 9:35am PST


	Hi Libby! As Onyx said she may just need more time to grow up. Also a lot of rescues relive puppyhood to make up for what they missed I think. If she is already mouthy be careful when you try a clicker.

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Libby

Ready for- anything,- anytime.

Barked: Tue Dec 20, '11 12:29pm PST


	Hi, when it comes to training, it is totaly diferent than my Aussie in past. Her attention span is split second. Training with food is nightmare. She knows I have something in the hand and she is like "where is is, damn, I know you have it there, just give it to me already" and she sits afterwards. So I don't use food training. I do give her reawards thou. I keep them so she doesn't know where they are. As a reward, she is also very happy just with lots of attention, sweet talking and rubbing.Outside she doesn't chase after bunnies anymore. But I have to be very loud to say no and stay. But she stopes dead in tracks. In other occasions, if I want her to do something, I have to sweet talk to her and ask for paw and she will do things. I don't worry about her being mouthy, she is very gentle and the clicker won't do anything. I think she will eventually outgrow her mouthiness. I ignore it now. I got me a clicker bc I used finger snapping and point with my hand or finger and she responds good but outside it wasn't loud enough.She ignored me. So the clicker helped. This dog is really smart. If she wants to, she learns things fast and does them well, but she is such a monster at times I don't force her and I don't do to many repetitions. She has no patience for it and will ignore me. Once or twice to ask is enough. Few minutes later I try again. I use "body language" with her. If I want something from her, I touch her on the side head or body with back of my hand and show her and/or tell her. She is very touchy feely and emotional, it works well. I too think that bc she didn't have any puppyhood, she just catching up. But just yesterday I bumped in the foster lady that brought her to us and talked to her. I mentioned the age and she said don't beleive what's on the paper. She thinks that she is younger too. So Libby might be only 1.5-2 years. She is very good dog and I got so attached to her. She is a talker too. She grunts, makes sounds, it is hilarious. I do have another dog, the lab Zeus and he is absolute opposite of her. Maybe the problem is that when I work with Libby, he is around. I feel bad leaving him behind. He is very passive but it might be distraction for Libby. So I search the web to learn about GS, definately she is little challenge bc I'd like to teach her the right way. I might go and pay for evaluation to create right training for her temperament. I don't need perfectly train dog and she is already good family member, but it would be good for her and her mind to keep her bussy. She is also learning play with toys. Last week finally she started to play tug with the rope. She has this two feet long squeeky toy and she drugs it around but balls don't do anything for her. Rawhide is the only favorite.

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Onyx

The one and Oni

Barked: Tue Dec 20, '11 1:40pm PST


	I'm a little confused by how you're using the clicker. Clicker/marker training is operant conditioning- it's used to mark the desired behavior and lets the dog know a reward is coming. It provides a communication system between you and the dog so they know exactly what they're being rewarded for. This article goes into more detail and there are countless other articles and books on clicker/marker training if you're interested. The fact that she loves food is actually a good thing and you can work with it. She just needs to learn there are no freebies, everything must be earned. If she wants the food she has to work for it by engaging with you. It might help if you keep the food somewhere she can't see it. I use a bait bag, similar to a fanny pack, that I wear in back. If the food is out of sight, the dog can't just mug your hand for the treat. To learn new behaviors, they need to be focused on you, not the treat. Edited by author Tue Dec 20, '11 1:50pm PST

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Libby

Ready for- anything,- anytime.

Barked: Tue Dec 20, '11 11:09pm PST


	Onyx, the bigest problem I have w/Libby to get her to focus.Her atention span is very short. Indoors it's O.K. Outside she will come to me if I call her, sometimes immediately, sometimes she'll take another sniff or two or few seconds before she comes. She is much better now. I started using clicker to get her attention outside.That click made her lift and turn head, I called her and she responded. Before that she was ignoring me all together. Calling and leash pulling didn't work. I know that's not how to use the clicker but I didn't know how to get her attention. Another thing now I'm trying. At the end of each walk about 2 houses away from ours, I make her stop, come to me and sit so I can let her loose. I tell her to go home and she does it. Well, except for the part where I tell her to sit. She won't. She looks around and is ignoring me, moves around, tries to get away but won't sit.Even if I try again and again,walk some more,repeat and nothing. She won't even look at me. It took me several minutes tonite and I forced her to sit by pulling by her collar and pushing on her back. She did it, squirming around but once she sat I said stay and she did, I sent her home and she run hapilly. In the front yard she was happy as a pig in sh..., jumping around. I called her, told her sit and she did it. I don't know why sometimes she ignores me or just refuses to do things. She walks nicely on the leash, she is good at home and listens at home. Maybe she is high strong crazy hyper pup and needs to outgrow it. She use to by crazy wild and jumping before walk, too excited, putting colar on her was hell, she stormed out of door. Now she is calmer, she sits,still excited but sits and before I open door she sits and waits for couple of seconds. So what do I do to get her attention outside and being focused. Yesterday I bumped in the the lady that brought Libby to us and talk to her, she told me she thinks that Libby is younger than what those paper said. So she might be 18, maybe up to 24 months.Does age makes a difference in GS in training? Do you think I should consider professional trainer to help us? I didn't use the food reward outside with her so I guess I should try that. But why she is listening at home reward or not and outside she's ignoring me?

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Onyx

The one and Oni

Barked: Tue Dec 20, '11 11:57pm PST


	Ah, I see. The sound of the clicker gets her attention because it's something she hasn't heard often before. She's heard people talking her whole life and has learned to tune it out because the majority of the time those sounds mean nothing to her. The same thing will eventually happen with the sound of the clicker if it's just used to get her attention. When it stops being novel, she'll just tune it out. She listens better at home because there are few or no distractions there. Outside, especially in new places, there are tons of distractions and it's more interesting to look around than it is to pay attention to you. I'd start by building up her engagement in the house. If you wish to clicker train, you can start by rewarding any engagement in the house. If you call her name and she looks at you, click and reward. Another good way to build engagement is to back away from her. She'll naturally want to follow you- click and reward. Any behavior where she's engaging you is rewarded. Once she's interested and engaged in the house, move to the yard and repeat. Don't ask for any behaviors like 'sit' or even 'come'. Just call her name, back away from her, and reward her for paying attention. From there move to areas of higher distraction. It's very difficult to teach a dog new behaviors if they aren't focused on you. Work on getting good engagement before trying to teach any behaviors in that area. For instance, once her engagement is good in the house, you can start asking for behaviors there because she's actually listening and open to learning. Whereas in the yard you may still be working on engagement so she's not ready to work on commands there yet. A positive reinforcement obedience class wouldn't be a bad thing but none of her behaviors sound abnormal for a young German Shepherd that hasn't received much training.

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Sabi

When the night- closes in I will- be there

Barked: Wed Dec 21, '11 8:52am PST


	Shadow is one of those dogs with no attention span. We work on Come in the house only as outside there are too many distractions and therefore too many fails. Don't set her up to fail. If you know she is distracted at this early stage of training don't give the command. You are actually conditioning her to disobey. In the house I let Shadow run around and periodically call her and give her a yummy treat, then let her go back to playing. She now comes like a bullet when called. At night in the yard when it is quiet we have started doing the same thing. Keep training sessions short and fun.

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Seela

Beauty and the- Beast

Barked: Fri Jan 6, '12 12:32pm PST


	Sounds to me she is still immature. I had a female that I got SCH I, CD and TD before she was two, but she matured very quickly and excelled because she loved to train and was not forced. Another male I had was a goof until he was six, he turned out to be a pretty rock solid dog. "She's heard people talking her whole life and has learned to tune it out because the majority of the time those sounds mean nothing to her." Onyx, I am glad you brought that up as my rescue dog 6 1/2 yrs when I got her was pretty good at ignoring me (selective hearing). I tried not to take it personal but what you said makes perfect sense. Seela does not ignore me any more as I would follow up the command. I find it also helped when I fed her, I would make her sit and look at me (not the bowl of food) right in my eyes so she knew it was me giving her food. I am new to this forum also and there sure is a lot of great people with very helpful suggestions.

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Squ'mey

too old to eat- any more KD

Barked: Fri Jan 6, '12 7:54pm PST


	OK.a quick primer on using the clicker: Start from scratch & "charge" the clicker. This is soooo easy. All you do is have a supply of treats & your clicker. Find a quiet room for you & Libby. Now..click & immediately give her a treat. No words, commands, cues, or even her name. Just click-treat, click-treat, until when you click..her head will snap around, rightfully expecting that treat. At this point you are ready to move to the operant conditioning stage. The click becomes the predictor of a reward to come, contingent on performing a behaviour. Start with one she knows.."sit"..say it only once, then wait. As soon as her butt hits the floor Click/treat. Try to be quick enough to feed while she is still in position. Do 4 or 5 reps..C/T for each. Then you can start to decrease the rewards. Ask for a sit..if she does..praise but NO C/T. Then ask for another sit & this time you do C/T. Mix it up..reward 2 in a row, then skip 3. This establishes a variable schedule of reinforcement. Think of slot machines...one never knows if the next nickel will give you a payout! The most important thing to remember is EVERY click = a treat...ALWAYS! Two awesome books are "Train your dog like a Pro" by Donaldson, & "The Power of Positive Dog Training" by Miller. Do not despair..Squ'mey is still a rebellious teenager at times & he just turned 31 months. Keep at it & we are always here to give you support, advice, or just an ear to vent to!

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