Forums Home » Food & Nutrition

wolves eating berries

Please keep discussions fun, friendly, and helpful at all times. Non-informative posts criticizing a particular brand or another poster’s choice of food are not allowed in this Forum. References to any brand of food as "junk," "garbage," or other harsh names will be removed.

Ginger Feed me.     Barked: Mon Apr 9, '12 11:08pm PST  Please provide your sources that domestic would die on a vegetarian diet and that plant matter isn't necessary in a wolf's diet. You also have to consider that dogs are in fact no longer wolves. What all of you are saying is fine but it really doesn't align with what veterinary nutritionists say and I prefer to take my advice from some one who has been highly educated in this field, rather than from random people on the internet. Even non-veterinary nutritionists and holistic veterinarians (unless they're also veterinary nutritionists) aren't a reliable source of information on this topic because they haven't received the advanced education and training and then continuation of education that veterinary nutritionists have. http://www.petdiets.com/faqs/display_faq.asp?ID=4 I will post more valid, science backed sources as I receive them. I'll limit them to domestic dog diets since studies showing that even a large portion of wolf fecal matter that's made up of plant matter will just go dismissed as "unnecessary" and since dogs are no longer wolves. my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals [notify]

Farley Farlekiin the- Dragonborn     Barked: Mon Apr 9, '12 11:30pm PST  Dogs and wolves are interfertile, with fertile offspring. They are not far removed enough to be a different species, let alone have entirely different digestive systems. Dogs and wolves are scientifically classified as carnivores. Sure, they will consume some plant matter, but they do not require it. The classification has little to do with their sporadic eating habits in time of little prey. By your logic, if carnivores need plant matter, then herbivores should need meat. ETA: When you post "sources", it doesn't exactly raise your credibility to reference websites that are selling a product like.. I don't know, pet diets. BTW, this really is basic textbook science. Since you're the one rejecting it, it is YOUR job to prove that canines need plants. Prove that they have rumen, extra chambered stomachs, a large cecum, and cellulase-producing bacteria. http://books.google.ca/books?id=2E-cPfyZQKMC&pg=PT154&lpg=PT15 4&dq=carnivore produce cellulase&source=bl&ots=eTxHfflyrf&sig=oBe7GKzuuCbRc6N6TXLrC6o1_8g&h l=en&sa=X&ei=x9aDT_buHMXPiAL9_8T_BQ&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=carn ivore produce cellulase&f=false Edited by author Mon Apr 9, '12 11:49pm PST my posts | my page | msg me | gift me | become pals [notify]

Farley Farlekiin the- Dragonborn     Barked: Tue Apr 10, '12 12:07am PST  Funny, although they are selling a mostly carb-based product, even Purina says: "Dietary carbohydrates are not required by normal, healthy cats and dogs.." D.P. Laflamme, DVM, PhD, DACVN (http://www.purinavets.eu/PDFs/ResearchReport_vol8-issue2.p df) Edited by author Tue Apr 10, '12 12:08am PST my posts | my page | msg me | gift me | become pals [notify]

Ginger Feed me.     Barked: Tue Apr 10, '12 12:27am PST  Again, you provide no sources, you just make unfounded claims. Again, dogs aren't wolves and again, nothing shows that plant matter should be eliminated from the diet. Dogs are 99% genetically alike to wolves while we are 98.5% genetically alike to chimpanzees. So does that make us chimpanzees as well? Dogs being wolves is a very romantic idea but in reality, they are no longer the same animal. Article on canine nutrition from Vet Learn: http://www.vetlearn.com/reference-desk/care-guide/canine-nutrition http://www.vetinfo.com/the-4-best-fruits-vegetables-for-dogs.html http://www.vet.purdue.edu/pcop/CanineUrinaryBladderCancer.pdf One of the best sources http://dels-old.nas.edu/dels/rpt_briefs/dog_nutrition_final.pdf M ore to come. my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals [notify]

Farley Farlekiin the- Dragonborn     Barked: Tue Apr 10, '12 12:33am PST  Dogs aren't wolves, they are a subspecies. Their insides are the same. A carnivore is a carnivore is a carnivore. I showed several sources. If you reject even the most basic of textbook science, there's little point to arguing. You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts. Like I said- you made the positive claim that canines NEED plants. So, cite your evidence that goes against their scientific classification of Carnivora. my posts | my page | msg me | gift me | become pals [notify]

Ginger Feed me.     Barked: Tue Apr 10, '12 12:40am PST  I don't think you quite understand their classification. And what I wrote also. I wrote that plant matter SHOULD be a part of their diet and that it is of benefit to them. People argue that dogs and wolves shouldn't eat plant matter because they can't digest cellulose. Well, neither can we. https://www.google.com/search?q=can+humans+digest+cellulose&ie=utf-8 &oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.yahoo:en-US:official&client=firefox Should we only be eating meat, animal fat and bones as well? We BOTH digest starch. http://books.google.com/books?id=aqeCwxbRWvsC&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=do gs+digest+starch&source=bl&ots=LAc-mUzvwO&sig=OQ9h0v_AWvDNvSTREngfdH 1REcA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AeODT7qlKMj10gGh3vy1Bw&ved=0CFMQ6AEwBw#v=onepage &q=dogs%20digest%20starch&f=false my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals [notify]

Farley Farlekiin the- Dragonborn     Barked: Tue Apr 10, '12 12:41am PST  Your first link is unaccessable to me. The second link is pointless- 4 fruits/vegetables you can feed your dog? That has nothing to do with requiring them. The third link I am not sure how it is relevant to this topic. The fourth link assumes dogs are omnivores (they aren't classified scientifically as such) and goes on to say they CAN survive on a 50% carbohydrate diet. Please prove your claim that canines require plants. my posts | my page | msg me | gift me | become pals [notify]

Farley Farlekiin the- Dragonborn     Barked: Tue Apr 10, '12 12:49am PST  I never said it would be harmful to include plants in the canine diet. And yes, some might be of benefit- if it is cooked and/or pureed. Very little can be utilized from its raw form to a carnivore. No mammals produce cellulase. Some herbivores are hosts for bacteria that produces it. Other than that, herbivores and some omnivores are equipped with the necessary equipment to at least partially digest plant material, some even regurgitating and re-chewing the food. No, humans and dogs can't digest cellulose, but humans have proper teeth for mastication as well as amylase in the saliva and gut. Dogs have neither a lateral-moving jaw, nor grinding teeth, nor amylase in the saliva. They also have a GI tract that is much shorter than ours. Like I said, this is all basic textbook stuff. Common knowledge. Once again, there's no evidence they require plants. There's nothing canines require that can't come from a varied diet of solely animal-derived sources. By the way, I don't disagree that cooked/pureed plant matter could be of a minimal benefit to canines. So if we're both agreeing they don't REQUIRE plants, but *can* benefit from them, I believe there's no disagreement from my end here. Edited by author Tue Apr 10, '12 12:58am PST my posts | my page | msg me | gift me | become pals [notify]

Ginger Feed me.     Barked: Tue Apr 10, '12 2:32am PST  Hmmm, a 27 year old dog's diet consists of rice, lentils and veggies. http://voices.yahoo.com/the-amazing-health-benefits-vegetables-dog-8 15655.html my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals [notify]

Samson Work? What's- that?     Barked: Tue Apr 10, '12 3:39am PST  So if you aim to feed biologically appropriate, then it would make sense to feed as many components of their natural diet as possible, and that includes the plant material component. You do not seem to understand what "biologically appropriate" means. It's referring what is most efficient concerning an animal's biology. Just because your dog eats poop does not make that a biologically appropriate diet or even as a tiny portion of their diet. If you're talking about something that mimes a "natural" diet, well, then that's another story. my posts | my page | msg me | my family's posts | gift me | become pals [notify]

(Page 5 of 9: Viewing entries 41 to 50)   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9