Let's Talk About Kibble/Processed Food, and how good is it really?

Discuss ways to improve the quality of your dog's life and longevity through proper nutrition; a place for all of your questions and answers about feeding your pooch!

Please keep discussions fun, friendly, and helpful at all times. Non-informative posts criticizing a particular brand or another poster’s choice of food are not allowed in this Forum. References to any brand of food as "junk," "garbage," or other harsh names will be removed.

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Sanka

The ground is my- newspaper.

Barked: Tue Dec 20, '11 7:25pm PST


	...and then there's my friend's dog...a recently adopted basset hound who was at the rescue for 2 years. Never received a bath and was fed Purina. When I pet that dog, she was as soft as soft could be. Thought she just had a bath, but no. 2 years of just dog, and it was rather lovely, especially for a hound. No grease. I know that feeling. Sanka had it on Beneful. I feel it on the farm dogs. Nasty stuff. Ears good, eyes good, teeth good. Overweight/obese can not be blamed on diet. Even dog's fed the crappiest foods can still easily be kept in shape. Dry skin can be elemental. Eye boogers can be allergies. Dirty ears can be structural and lack of general care. Stools are hit or miss. I'd say the only clear cut winner, for me, would be teeth. I see raw diets as winning that battle. But for everything else, there are so many variables to take into consideration before you blame the oh so horrible kibble. What is slightly offensive is the looking down on "kibble-fed" dogs with something deemed as "curable" by a raw diet. And by generalizing kibble as all the same as per remarks by saying "kibble-fed dogs" rather than "cheap kibble-fed dogs". But by the admissions of numerous people, raw diet doesn't "cure" a lot of things. Many admit to same sized poops or larger ones on raw. Eye boogers or dry skin still present. Etc. I don't doubt raw is great. I truly do feel it is best. But it is one part of many. And being better doesn't make it the cure to all ailments, and that doesn't make anything else the cause of all ailments. And when entering that area, that is where offenses can easily be made. Assuming that those bad ears or gunky eyes are the direct result of kibble.

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Sophie

Miss Bossy Fluff

Barked: Tue Dec 20, '11 10:49pm PST


	I can see what you mean, Sanka, and it's not right for people to jump to conclusions. But at the same time, if a problem is probably diet-related, why not recommend a diet change? It'll be a super easy fix if diet was the cause, without any meds needed. If it doesn't work, the dog didn't suffer. Sometimes I get foster dogs with ear infections (yeast), allergies, poor coats, grease, etc. Those dogs always improve on raw. Is diet the only cause of those problems? No, but it's a good starting point when trying to treat those types of issues. And I've yet to meet a dog on a good diet that has a greasy coat. I do agree that it may not be fair to group all kibble-fed dogs together. I'm guilty of doing that even though I don't think all kibbles are made equal. Just a habit. Pedigree and Science Diet are not the same as TOTW or Orijen . "Many admit to same sized poops or larger ones on raw." I actually haven't heard this. I've fed many, many foster dogs raw and they've all had smaller stools. I think the same is for most raw feeders, unless they're over-feeding. Or at least the raw feeders I know . Honestly, the small stools that don't sit around forever is one of my main reasons for feeding raw to the foster dogs :p.

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Adam

Vaccine free- -Disease free- goes pawinpaw

Barked: Tue Dec 20, '11 11:25pm PST


	"This amazes me too. Murphy has no odor. You can bury your face in him and there is no smell. He has not had a bath in 2 years (he had one when he came home and not since in over 2 years) on a raw diet. In general, I don't think dogs are supposed to be greasy or smell "doggy" or need frequent baths. I experienced the same thing with all 3 dogs I've raw-fed. No smell and no need for baths (one was a lab). " I haven't tried a raw diet for myself, but I know I felt better when cut out many processed foods. I agree with what you wrote here about owners who think it's normal for a dog to smell like a dog or have excessive shedding and huge bowels, but also sometimes dogs can and do look and appear healthy eating the very low end of kibble - for even years. But we human know how we feel when we eat right or eat a bad diet. My appearance doesn't change if I eat junk food, my weight even stays the same (probably wouldn't for too long though) but we certainly don't feel our healthiest and diet will catch up to us. And we feel diet change effects immediately like you know how you feel if you eat all junk one day. Sometimes I get comments like "why do you want your dog to live much longer than 12-17 years anyway" well no of course I wish my dogs could live as long as me but I think they don't understand that what I'm trying to do is let them feel the healthiest they can in each year they get. But I think whether it's the least or best kibble, if anyone substitutes 1/4 of it with fresh food (meat, RMBs, eggs), I think they can help their dogs feel healthiest. I think that can be enough, so simple to do. Edited by author Tue Dec 20, '11 11:32pm PST

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Beauregard

1207665

Barked: Wed Dec 21, '11 7:17am PST


	@ Adam "But I think whether it's the least or best kibble, if anyone substitutes 1/4 of it with fresh food (meat, RMBs, eggs), I think they can help their dogs feel healthiest. I think that can be enough, so simple to do." I'm not so sure about that. It's obvious that some kibble is better than others and I wonder if some raw diets are better than others. Beauregard is on a raw diet and he was doing really well on it but now I don't think that he is. He seems really tired all the time. I want to switch him to a prey model raw diet but I'm not sure how to do it.(Adam, still waiting for email) I'm hoping that a prey model diet will help make him feel better.

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Adam

Vaccine free- -Disease free- goes pawinpaw

Barked: Wed Dec 21, '11 8:39am PST


	Beau, yes some dogs would show effects of diet(good or bad) faster than others. I don't think I could help Beau the best though because of how you said you got each food tested for his allergies? I think asking on the raw forum here would give better help because you'd have me and others hopefully giving input Also do you think you should get a stool check if it's due? Sudden lethargy makes me wonder if it's parasites maybe?

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Beauregard

1207665

Barked: Wed Dec 21, '11 8:47am PST


	@Adam I just wanted some advice from you. If you read my email I sent you, you would know why I don't want to ask on the raw forum. I'm still hoping you will reply to my email. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have parasites. My guess is his body is tired from digesting the wrong kinds of food. I read that a dog's body has to work harder to digest vegetables. The premade raw food he has now has a lot of vegetables. He is getting more vegetables than meat. I figured it out and he only gets 6 1/2 ounces a meat a day. So I definitely have to change his diet. Edited by author Wed Dec 21, '11 9:04am PST

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Murphy

Don't make me- pee in the rain.

Barked: Wed Dec 21, '11 9:54am PST


	but also sometimes dogs can and do look and appear healthy eating the very low end of kibble - for even years. ----- I agree with this. I had an Australian Shepherd that lived 14 years, other than the usual shots and such, she NEVER saw a vet until 2 months before she died. I had no idea what I was doing, I fed her nutro and purina. BUT, looking back, she licked her feet a lot. I think a lot about what she could have been. She appeared healthy, but as you said, appearance can sometimes not reflect what's going on underneath. With each dog that I've fed raw, there has been a significant change, even with the the ones that have appeared very healthy and vibrant and were on quality kibble, it still takes them up a notch. This is my personal experience. Not speaking for every raw or kibble fed dog.

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Murphy

Don't make me- pee in the rain.

Barked: Wed Dec 21, '11 9:55am PST


	Beauregard What's your question - you can message me. I've fed prey model for 4 years.

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Tyson Savage- CGC

Let's do big dog- stuff!

Barked: Wed Dec 21, '11 2:18pm PST


	I think there are a lot of good points being put out there about internal health and exterior. I personally knew a dog who was being fed Pedigree and her owners poured all the bacon grease from breakfast over it every morning. Lived into her teens and had an insanely shiny coat. But I don't think she was very happy or healthy inside, and should she have had puppies and they been fed the same diet I think you would surely see a reflection of this. There isn't anyone looking down on others for feeding kibble. Again, I feed it. I'm wondering how many people responding to my OP at least watched the Price-Pottenger story I posted (it's only seven minutes long) because it seems like some of the defensiveness is coming from a point that was missed. I encourage everyone to watch it, because that's more what this thread was about. The effect of diet through generations. Nobody needs to be feeling like they need to defend kibble. I mean honestly, show of hands, if all kibble and all meat was the same price and availability who here would really stick with it and not feed raw? This isn't about which is better, it's more about the bigger picture of what is going to be the result of years of processed feeding. And we only feed kibble because it is the cheaper, more convenient option. It is unfortunate that we live in a country (I'm not saying "world" because I don't know about the rest of the world) where good, wholesome, natural food is a luxury and not the standard, for human and pet alike.