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Stolen dog returned now someone is knocking at my door

This is a forum to discuss legislation and legal matters pertaining to the rights and welfare of dogs. Please remember to counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice and responses.

  
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Trigger

*Blackdog*
 
 
Barked: Mon Mar 4, '13 7:58pm PST 
Am I missing something here?

This dog was out of the guest posters possession for TWO YEARS. The people laying claim to her had her for ONE YEAR. You don't think these people could have spent $600 on just food alone in that time?? Much less if they took the dog and got it veterinary care in all that time???

Why if these people stole the dog and wanted to extort money from the original owners would they have waited ALL THAT TIME??? And then ask for so very little in return??

Doesn't make a stitch of sense any way you slice it.



My dogs have slipped their collars more times than I can count. It's why they don't wear them when they aren't being directly supervised. Anyone that's been around dogs for any amount of time knows full well it's not at all difficult for them to do.

All dogs have never left their yard before.....until the very first time they do confused

Edited by author Mon Mar 4, '13 8:00pm PST

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Ava & Nix

Suburban Farm- Dogs
 
 
Barked: Tue Mar 5, '13 12:08am PST 
It doesn't change the fact these strangers KNEW they had someone else's dog and only made maybe 2 attempts at the most (1 from the vet and then apparently the lady tried to call once if I read that right?), didn't even leave a voice message, and then decided to keep the dog all for themselves.

I gotta say if the collar was found just lying there in the middle of the yard rather than snagged on a bush or something, it's not unreasonable to assume someone took that collar off. Most dogs don't usually try to pry their collars off their necks with their paws. My dogs have slipped their collars too, but only when they were on-leash. When they're off leash and running around they've never lost a collar. If one day I were to go out in the yard and see that my dogs were nowhere to be found, but their collars were lying there, I'd assume they were stolen too.

Even if Cassie did in fact slip her collar and wasn't stolen from the yard, I consider that if you find someone else's dog and you know it has a chip with the information you need to contact the dog's owners, yet you decide to keep the dog to yourself anyways, then you ARE stealing it.

From OP's last post: "She sure found my name and address in 1 day when she went missing from her yard."

There's no excuse for those people keeping the dog for a whole year when they knew she had an owner and they are clearly more than capable of getting an address.

I mean, when we found that Whippet when I was a kid, sure we wanted to keep her, but we still kept a "Found Dog" ad out for however long it was that she was in our care until her real owners finally saw the ad and contacted us. It's not right to keep a dog when you know it has an owner... heck, in the case of the Whippet, which again was way back before microchips were a thing, we could have just assumed she DIDN'T have an owner. The fact this dog did have a microchip, and they kept her anyways, is why, IMO, they don't deserve a penny in reimbursement. They were in the wrong in keeping her, instead of giving her back.

Edited by author Tue Mar 5, '13 12:18am PST

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Taggert

Semper Vorax
 
 
Barked: Tue Mar 5, '13 12:14am PST 
I'd threaten them back. They want to extort you for $600 tell them that you will be talking to the police about them accepting stolen property on top of extortion. it's just that simple.
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Trigger

*Blackdog*
 
 
Barked: Tue Mar 5, '13 5:33am PST 
Ava and Nix....stop and thunk.about this for a minute.....

You chip your dog, your dog runs off. Someone else finds your dog and brings it to the vet where a microchip is found.

Do you REALLY think the vet is going to hand that information over to just some random people that brought the dog in??

NO. WAY. Do your research. That information is not made public and even if it was IT WAS INCORRECT per guests own admission! There is no way a name and address was just given out in hopes a stranger would do the righthing. That is NOT how it works.

If guest had updated information and took 5 minutes to call local vets to report the "theft" guaranteed they'd have had their dog back that supposed first time it was brought in and scanned.

The vet him or herself tried to contact the owners and the information was incorrect. There are a whole lot of assumptions being made about what the people that found the dog did after that. NO ONE HERE knows to what extent they tried to search for the owners. Period.


The only facts here are:

The dog was left outside unsupervised
The vet wasn't notified of the dog missing (which is an owner's responsibility)
The microchip information was not up to date
The dog was gone for two YEARS - during which someone else did have to take care of it


You bet I would sue if I had nothing to do with the dog running off, nothing to do with the microchip information being out of date and everything to do with how the dog survive all that time.
Imho the OP should be THANKING these people and definitely offering them compensation for spending their time, efforts, resources and love all that time on a dog OP now intends to keep.
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Ava & Nix

Suburban Farm- Dogs
 
 
Barked: Tue Mar 5, '13 8:33am PST 
I re-read through all of OP's posts but I didn't see anything where they admitted the information on the chip was incorrect and then was changed. I saw where they posted that the vet and woman said they couldn't be reached on a number, but please point me to where they said the number was not correct, because "could not be reached" doesn't always mean "number doesn't work."
Heck, you know how many dogs people leave with us at work with numbers they can't be reached on? A lot. But they're not our dogs to keep.

And obviously in a normal situation a vet would NOT give out microchip information for the strangers to call the owner, but we can only go by what this woman said, and apparently she claimed that she tried to call again after leaving the vet's. Vets should not be giving out home address information either, but somehow this woman got it. How, if not from the vet? What little we know of her side of the story is very suspicious. No, that information is not--or at least SHOULD not be given out--but it was. Why? The vet is suspicious to me too.

Also, the OP DID say they contacted the vet: "We did look for her of course. We called every Vet office in 3 counties. We called Animal control we drove up and down every street and road in 4 towns knocking on doors and showing her photo to include posting them."

Everyone is irresponsible from time to time. Dogs escape. That doesn't mean their owners should get their dogs taken away. That does not mean OP should go giving the dog back. As I said before, knowing how Border bond tightly to their people, and suffer badly when separated, I doubt Cassie would even want to go back to this lady. The same way the Whippet wanted nothing more to do with us once she saw her owner again after however long it was (I was probably 9 or 10 at the time and can't remember EXACTLY, but I know it was a long time we had her). Yes she bonded to us, but she never forgot her real owner. From the sound of it even though 2 years have passed, Cassie didn't forget them for a day, and is probably as happy to finally be home as her people are to have her back.

OP had also said in one of their posts that things might be different if this woman didn't come right off as such a hag when she showed up at their door and demanded the dog or the money. If someone showed up a day after I found my dog and was getting nasty with me on my own property, you bet I'd tell them to leave, and if they refused I'd have the police escort them off for trespassing. You don't get stuff by being nasty.

The way I see it this lady did technically steal the dog, because she KNEW it had an owner VIA the microchip and made little to no attempt to find the owner. I'd question if she even posted flyers or an ad in the paper or online. Even if the information on the microchip was in fact false, she still knew it had an owner, and she still chose to keep the dog. And then, when the dog goes missing from HER property, she immediately tracks it down, possibly through illegal means (vet giving out client's information), and shows up rudely demanding money or dog.

IF she had made every attempt possibly to track down the dog's owners... IF she had shown up on their property and politely explained the situation and requested some type of reward or reimbursement, things might be different. I might suggest trying to make a deal with her. But from the sound of it, that's not what happened.

Of course we can only assume, because we don't have Ms. I-Want-Money-Or-Dog here to tell her side of the story, but I'm going to take OP's side, because I know if I was in this situation, I'd be fighting tooth and nail to keep MY dog, and I would not give someone a cent if they demanded something from me in such a way.
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Trigger

*Blackdog*
 
 
Barked: Tue Mar 5, '13 8:46am PST 
Ava and Nix - I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.

There is no evidence the dog was ever stolen.

There is no evidence the people who showed up laying claim to the dog stole the dog.

After two years this isn't a matter of "real" owners and frankly I'm disgusted by the notion.

All but one of my dogs has been adopted after being found as a stray or abandoned. Additionally, many dogs came through the shelter I volunteered at had chips with incorrect information or no identifying information associated with them at all. I don't consider my dogs original owners or the original owners of aaaaaaaall those dogs that have gone through shelters with unidentifiable chips as currently owned by "illegitimate" owners. They are every bit owned now by REAL owners, REAL families, and they are loved just as much so if not more than they were by their original families.

When someone comes forward to adopt an animal who didn't otherwise have a home they indeed DO become the dogs "REAL" owner.

If someone came forward claiming to be my dogs "REAL" owner after years of them being a part of my family I'd laugh.


I also disagree that dogs just routinely go missing all the time. In all the years I've owned dogs I've never once had one disappear. I believe in accidents, but what you're implying about them happening often and normally is absolutely absurd to me. It's not rocket science to keep a dog properly supervised and contained imho.



I hope no matter what the dog the guest is discussing here ends up exactly where it belongs and is subsequently cared for in an appropriate, safe and responsible manner so as to avoid this EVER happening to it again.
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Mr. Jake the- Beagle

I am Murphy's- Law Embodied! <3- Me!
 
 
Barked: Tue Mar 5, '13 10:23am PST 
Does anyone even know what state or county Guest is posting from? Since when i find stays in my area and take them to the vets office. They vet keeps the dog if it has a chip. I never see them again but i usually leave a note that incase the owner cannot be reacehd i'm willing to foster the dog. I have only gotten call backs saying some hysterical owner is happy to have their escaped dog back.

Dogs do get out. It happens all the time. I've found a lot of dogs while walking my dog in the morning. They slip a tie out and run, they dig a hole in the backyard. I mean i've found nice pure breed dogs that i would have loved to keep. It would have been easy to throw the collar away and say screw it. But i'm not that kind of person. Nor would i want money back for caring for someone elses dog if i had to foster. A reward would be nice but i wouldnt' expect it.

In the case of guest. It's not the same as adopting a pound dog. Jake is a pound dog that had a chip that had been deactivated by the pound when he was surrendered. Yeah he had a family that didn't like him very much. But he had been a stray before that family. I adopted jake legally. Paid a fee through the county to own him. That isn't what happened in guests case. Someone ripped the dog from her/ his yard and took it. That's stealing. It wasn't there (person asking for money) dog to have. It belonged to someone. And if they do go to court the chip will hold true. Since the person registered to the chip is the owner. (or so my chip company avid assures me).
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Sarge

Teddybear
 
 
Barked: Tue Mar 5, '13 10:52am PST 
Trigger on one of your posts you put that a vet wouldn't give out the owner's number or address isn't always true. I've gotten it before when I've called vets stating I found a dog that had the vets phone number on their rabies tag and they looked it up for me and gave me the names and numbers to contact the owners. I've done it numerous times with different vets. I've had the same happen to me. I rehomed a dog and later I had messages from a vet and and the person that found him running loose called me and left me a voice message because the person that I rehomed him to never switched over the information. I understand how there are a lot of people who don't update the information for the microchip but doesn't sound like the case here because that's how the vet contacted the original owners. What I don't get is why people are rehoming or keeping dogs that they found. They should be notifying the pound and local vets of the dog they found so if someone is looking for their dog whether it was stolen or lost, they can find them. I see it on craigslist all the time. " I found this dog running loose today and I can't keep it so needs a new home or if you own it call blah blah blah." If you find it, take it to the pound and if no one claims them within the certain amount of days then you could adopt them legally. Plus why wouldn't they leave a message after they scanned the chip? That just doesn't sound right to me. I wouldn't pay if I felt they hadn't done the right thing to begin with. If they had tried calling a few times and left messages or notified the pound and put up flyers or an ad in the paper and such when they found the dog and nothing came of it after a few weeks then I would say they had a right to be recompensated or the dog returned to them but if not then it's on them if they paid any medical bills or anything on the dog. Not to mention it is actually very common for people to steal dogs. Once I had two Rottie puppies I had them disappear out of my back yard while i was at work. My parents were home and I got a call fro my parents asking if I had taken them to work with me. They found the gate pushed in and our dogs were gone. I came home and started looking everywhere. My mom was even stopping cars driving by. I created hundreds of signs with pics and went door to door leaving every house around us a flyer and every telephone/electrical pole had one posted on it. I had a neighbor come over and said he saw a guy with two rottie puppies walking on a leash close by my house that same day. I had people call and told me they would send their kids out looking for the pups as well. The next day a bunch of kids came over with one of them and then brought me to a house that had my other one. I was lucky. Dogs where I lived where stolen a lot to be used for fighting or bait. A few months later a guy came to Banfield to let them know his dog was missing and the vet there said not to give up home because one of the people that worked at Petsmart(me) had gotten hers stolen and ended up getting hers back. He asked her if they were rotties and she said yes. He stated they weren't stolen that HE had found them on MY front lawn. Well if he had why didn't he knock on the door to check if they were ours? Why didn't he look on their tags that even showed our address? My parents were home the whole time. Not to mention why was our gate to the back yard pushed in and not out? Just very fishy to me. He probably figured there was no way to keep the pups after I left notices everywhere even their house with my pups pictures. I even had a friends dog stolen after the person broke into the house. I've even heard how people will purposely walk a female dog in heat around someones house to get someones dog to escape so they can steal it. They even say not to tattoo the ear or a leg because the thieves have been known to amputate it.
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Trigger

*Blackdog*
 
 
Barked: Tue Mar 5, '13 10:56am PST 
Jake - there is no evidence the dog was stolen.

Nor is there any indication the chip was ever registered in the guests name. If it had been, like in your experience, the dog wouldn't have been allowed to go with the people who found it, the information wouldn't have been shared with the strangers and it would have been easy enough to contact the owner.
that's exactly why and how chipping works. Bottom line - if your dog goes missing you notify vets and make sure that contact information is current. If the vet that originally scanned the dog would have been notified the dog was missing that would have been the end of it. If the chip's information was current that would have been the end of it. Now two years later the dog happens to fall into their lap and they want to call it theirs?


Not to mention the dog was gone two years, and the person who showed up claiming to own the dog now only had it for one year. If that's true there's no way they had anything to do with the dog disappearing.

If this was about theft with intent to extort there is no way the dog would have been gone two years. They'd have snatched it and demanded money much much sooner. You can't make money stealing something that needs daily care and then asking for less than it would have cost to provide that care all that time.

TO REPEAT:
-THERE IS NO PROOF OF THEFT (you can make all the assumptions you want to but when it comes down to it there is absolutely no proof)
-AND THIS ISN'T EXTORTION IF THERE IS NO MONEY TO ACTUALLY BE MADE

Think about it, how much money have you spent on one of your dogs in the last year, much less TWO. I can tell you for mine anyway it's been WAAAAAY more than $600.
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Mr. Jake the- Beagle

I am Murphy's- Law Embodied! <3- Me!
 
 
Barked: Tue Mar 5, '13 11:25am PST 
i dno't know tigger.

If i came outside to my yard and found jake's collar laying there but no jake. I'd be liable to think he'd been stolen since if the collar is just laying in the yard how'd he get it off?

And there's no proof the dog took off at large either. Except that the dog disappeared. there's no proof the dog was stolen just like there's no proof the dog was merely taking a walk about.

The person said they contacted vets in 3 counties. I don't know how much you know about the area but they could be from a far away area where they never went to the same vet. They never said were the dog was "found".

My friend actually had his boxer stolen. Fence kicked in. Dog was chipped. But dog was still stolent. he gets a phone call 2 years later saying they had his dog. My friend looked at his little Chi and said no my dog is right here. She's fine. They said no we have your boxer is this not Mr. X? The dog finally got to a vet that scanned the chip and called the pound. My friend had called around. The dog showed up nearly half the state away in Northern CA near Sacramento. I mean things happen. And he did get his dog back and they're extremely happy together.

Regardless of if this is extortion or not. The dog belongs to guest and well she doesn't have to pay anyone anything for returning stolen property and demanding anything. She's not obligated to pay this new person anything since it wasn't her dog to care for. THe dog belonges to Guest.

and i'm happy she/he got there dog back. Regardless of circumstances.
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