So, who's liable here?

This is a forum to discuss legislation and legal matters pertaining to the rights and welfare of dogs. Please remember to counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice and responses.

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Sanka

The ground is my- newspaper.

Barked: Wed Aug 3, '11 5:27pm PST


	My grandparents own this lot that has an old farm house on it. They rent it out to this guy, who has 2 dogs. The lot is very long, and the house sits at the very back. Also on this lot is a shed and a few grain bins, all belonging to my grandfather. So, we usually stop by often to get equipment and such out of the shed. I along with other relatives are allowed to go on the property, but not in the house. If I am out there with Kato, I will usually go up in the part of the yard by the road away from the house and let him run around as there are good shade trees and lots of critters to chase. But one time, the dogs of the guy who rents the farm house, ran up to me and Kato. Here is a video of the dogs and a little bit of the lot. The guy was not home this time. I know the dogs are outside dogs as my grandparents do not allow animals in the houses they rent out. So, these dogs are allowed off leash and are that way 24/7 here. I went to the edge of the lot again today as Kato needed some shade after I went for a walk with him. As we are there, the guy who rents the place came home. He drove passed us, down the long lane and to the house waking his dogs up. Then turned around and came back down the lane. His dogs follow him and then see us...so naturally, they come running up. I didn't think much of it since the last visit was fine. But the guy stops his truck, gets out and says "hey, how ya doin? This one (the cattle dog) is friendly, but that one (the husky) is not." He then grabs the husky before it gets to Kato and puts him in the truck. After a brief chat, he then tells me that his dog again is not good with other dogs and will kill my dog. He then leaves saying "Fair warning, ok?" I just said "ok" and we parted ways...but as I left I thought....um, no...not ok. His dog obviously does fine with Kato. I didn't mention they had met before, but if his dog was a dog that would indeed kill other dogs, wouldn't he be liable for keeping his "dangerous" dog off leash? Even if it was on this lot of land? Or would that somehow go back to my grandparents, who own the land? Or maybe even me? Although, I don't see how being as I am allowed to walk on this land.

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Titus

Cave canis- vigilo omnis

Barked: Wed Aug 3, '11 7:46pm PST


	Generally speaking, the owner of the property is responsible for what happens on the property (barring any special wording in the lease) - this is why some breeds (or dogs in general) are restricted from some rental properties - the owner of the property isn't willing to assume the responsibility should something happen, or his insurance company won't cover potential damages. Personally, I would take his warning to heart just to avoid any conflict. Although you apparently have the right to go onto the property, it doesn't mean it's a good idea to bring your dogs. He has the reasonable expectation of privacy and security where he rents. I guess in the interests of everyone's safety and peace of mind, I would suggest that you give him a courtesy call before going over there with the dogs. You would have to check your local ordinances to see what constitutes a dangerous dog.

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Bella and- Daisy CGC

I'm a Meanie

Barked: Wed Aug 3, '11 8:31pm PST


	I would be careful and not take your dogs. There is a lot at play here. One being the lease and the wording. If it spells out exactly what part of the property is leased. Cause if the dogs must be outside, then the landlord should have outlined what outdoor portion of land the dogs stay on. If a lawyer wasn't consulted to construct the lease, then I would just stay away. It will messy if an incident occurs, period. Generally the landowner could be sued for damages the tenant's dog causes but some leases might undo that clause. but, if the landlord forces the dogs outside but didn't define an area then the landlord might be responsible for the dogs since he basically told the tenant he has to keep them on his land. Muddled mess. Stay away. Even if the dogs meet eh dangerous dog laws in the area, you might be stirring more trouble than it is worth and it might still be better to not take your dogs over.

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Uno

I'm huntin'- wabbits

Barked: Wed Aug 3, '11 9:24pm PST


	odd, seems like a pretty easygoing happy husky

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dog-sitter in- charge.

Barked: Wed Aug 3, '11 11:09pm PST


	Maybe your grandparents could word the renewed lease to state that even though no dogs are allowed in the house, they must be securely contained otherwise to have a pet.

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Sanka

The ground is my- newspaper.

Barked: Thu Aug 4, '11 5:45am PST


	Yeah, seemed like a nice albeit pushy husky to me. I'm assuming they had problems with him and other dogs before. Kato is very non-confrontational...so maybe the husky had only gotten in scuffles with other pushy dogs. In any case, I don't see why he would say his dog would kill mine unless he had seen his dog do something. He wasn't trying to scare me off because he made it a point to say the dog loves people. And I agree, I probably won't be going back. He has the reasonable expectation of privacy and security where he rents. But see...not really...well, not in the context of privacy in terms of not having people on the lot. Right next to the house are the shed and grain bins. So, it can get really busy depending on the time of the year. If my uncle brought his dog with him while he was unloading corn and his dog got attacked by the guy's dog...that would still be my grandparent's fault even though my uncle, who is a farmer, is fully entitled to be there? I guess I'm just hung up on the whole dog vs dog thing. If the dog had attacked my uncle instead while he was unloading corn, would liability still be my grandparent's? We don't go in the house. And I don't even go near the house. That house is like 1/4 of a mile off from the road, which is where I let Kato run around. We weren't even close enough for his dogs to detect us, even with Kato running around, tags jingling and all. I know the contract is legally bound. I doubt it has anything in there about the specifics of where the outside dogs must be kept. I just know they had a clause about not allowing pets in their rental houses.

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Bella and- Daisy CGC

I'm a Meanie

Barked: Thu Aug 4, '11 6:32am PST


	Generally speaking, the property owner is the one held at fault for things that happen in their property. Thus why for many places you have to go through background checks, reference checks and the like. I was just looking for a house in a new city and the pet policy of one property management company includes: "The following will be allowed, but Tenant must provide and show proof of insurance naming Management and Owner as additional insured: 1) Chow Chows, 2) Siberian Huskies, 3) Perro de Presa Canarios, 4) Alaskan Malamutes, 5) Akitas, 6) Boxers, 6) Great Danes, 7) and Wolf-hybrids. " Basically, since they are liable they require the tenant to take out an insurance policy so if something happens, the company and home owner don't have to use their own insurance. It helps lower their costs.

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Titus

Cave canis- vigilo omnis

Barked: Thu Aug 4, '11 6:45am PST


	My point about the reasonable expectation of privacy and security was that while some family members might have business on (and been granted access to) the property for the purpose of retrieving equipment and supplies, that's not why you're there. Sorry - I know that sound's kinda snarky, but I don't mean it that way. As for the dog vs. dog thing... it's hard to say - the dogs might be fine together, but if they aren't it would be a mess. Liability would depend on the circumstances, local laws, and the terms of the lease.

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Harlow

st. francis of- asses

Barked: Thu Aug 4, '11 7:55am PST


	My landlord's BIL was just on my property, he is a plumber and was sent here by my landlord so yes, he had the right to be in my yard. But if he would of brought his dogs with him and let them in the yard where mine were off leash, I would of thrown a fit. The courtesy of him being on my property (mine for the length of the lease) does NOT extend to his dogs and I would of asked him to leave if this was the case.

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Yoshi