papered or Unpapered? canadain kennel club

If you are wondering what is the right dog for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about tail wagging and learning.

Wiliam C

if i see it its- mine,
Barked: Thu Sep 19, '13 2:44pm PST 
What are the benefits if any? apart from that you know your getting a "purebred" dog with the paper work. I have no plans of breeding or showing. What is the point in CKC paper work? I know that I'm going to hear that getting a dog from someone that registers means I am not getting my pup from a back yard breeder although I am sure that their are some bad "professional breeders" who paper their dogs too so the Question is WHAT are the benefits to someone not breeding and not showing? I'm looking at getting a Mini/or Toy or even standard poodle. Just your general thoughts on "papered or Un-papered" what it's for ?
Toto, CD, RN, CGC

We don't do- doodles!!!
Barked: Thu Sep 19, '13 3:06pm PST 
In most cases a dog having proper registration papers indicates a breeder who bred with a purpose and has most likely done some research into pedigrees and what particular dog will have strong points where their dog may be weak or vice versa, and will generally compliment the dog they are breeding.
It is extremely rare, if not impossible to find a breeder who does planned breedings according to pedigree, does health certifications on both parents and offers a decent guarantee who does NOT register their litters. Admittedly, not all registered litters do have health testing done, etc., but it is more likely.
In the poodle it is extremely important to only buy a pup from tested parents, especially eye clearances, PRA, Hips, knees and patellas, and SA in the Standards. Without this testing, registered or not, you have no way of knowing whether or not your dogs parents are BOTH carrying recessive genes for hereditary issues and your pup can develop blindness, hip or other joint problems, etc.
The breeder will have copies of the results of these tests and you should make sure you see these results before buying ANY pup.
None of this testing can be done by a "regular" vet, they need to be done by a special ist in the area being tested for.

More Bored- Collies
Barked: Thu Sep 19, '13 3:10pm PST 
Technically there really isn't much of a benefit in having a registered dog when you're looking for "just a pet"
Although of course with such an intelligent and athletic breed, you may be interested in competing in other CKC sanctioned events such as Obedience or Rally?

However, in Canada it in violation of the Animal Pedigree Act to sell a dog as purebred without providing the proper registration papers. To charge more for said papers is also a violation. (http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/A-11.2/index.html)

That being said, while yes, there are people who register their dogs that are less than reputable, there are very few (if any) breeders that will be selling un-registered stock as purebred. That is why breeder research is important.

Jem - Kandansk- Emerging- Artist

Barked: Thu Sep 19, '13 3:11pm PST 
The registration paper states that your dog is a purebred, it does not tell you if the parents were tested, titled or how your puppies was raised. I assume from your other thread in grooming that you're in Ontario, you may have more luck there with a bigger population but in my area (Saskatchewan) if I want to compete in sports (OB, rally, agility) it is much easier with a registered dog as most events are CKC and they still only accept registered dogs at their events.

I'm surprised that you haven't desided on a size yet, once I had decided on what I wanted and found a breeder I was on a wait list for a year before my puppy was born. Again perhaps it's different in Ontario.

Would you mind sharing what breeders you're looking at? Toto is a breeder and was kind enough to look at a couple breeders for me when I was looking and confirmed somethings for me and pointed out somethings that I had missed. It was a weight off my shoulders to have her looking out for me and now I have a beautiful 7 month old mini poodle.

Please, be nice - ... or else!
Barked: Thu Sep 19, '13 4:01pm PST 
There are lots (and lots and lots and lots) of Poodle breeders, especially here in Ontario. The overwhelming majority are mediocre at best. Papers aside, it's hard enough finding a good breeder. I know of no good Canadian breeder, of any CKC recognized breed, who will not, automatically, give you the appropriate papers. It's a given.

Having said that, there are many puppy mills, pet shops, poor breeders and "backyard" breeders who will also offer papers. Paper work is no guarantee of quality. I know of (mediocre) breeders who "fudge" their own, so that in some cases, those papers are not even a guarantee of pedigree.

Forget about worrying about papers. Do your due diligence with whatever breed/breeder you select.

Best of luck!
Toto, CD, RN, CGC

We don't do- doodles!!!
Barked: Thu Sep 19, '13 4:17pm PST 
BRT is right on!!! Sadly, poodles are a dime a dozen, especially the mini and toys. Even more sad, good, healthy, well temperamented poodles are not easy to come by, no matter where you live.
Unfortunately, there is no comparison between dime a dozen poodles and well bred ones!
I know this, I currently live with TWO rescues, one from a BYB and the other from a mill thru a pet store. They don't even LOOK like my other poodles, one can barely walk at 7 years old and is mostly blind, the other has some serious neurotic behaviors. Both have thin, cottony coats.

When the night- closes in I will- be there
Barked: Sat Sep 21, '13 12:15am PST 
III General Responsibilities

g) No breeder shall sell or donate dogs for the purpose of their being auctioned, raffled or to pet stores.
Wiliam C

if i see it its- mine,
Barked: Sat Oct 5, '13 9:11am PST 
thanks for the response, we are looking at either a toy or Mini and HAVE found a breeder. at this point she is in the process of breeding her female so cross fingers that we should hear some good news by Monday and then puppies to follow in the next couple of months!!!