Question; Am I an Ethical Breeder If.....?

If you are wondering what is the right dog for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about tail wagging and learning.

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Spooky Mulder
Barked: Wed May 29, '13 2:38pm PST 
Here's another bright idea:

If the dog you valued so much as a top prospect was SO great... why not just go back to the breeder you got them from and go for seconds?

What makes "you" (general you) so great as to think you can recreate what was in that dog? Especially when you already KNOW the breeding that produced it is capable... which as Tiller also pointed out, is NOT always a given. NOT all top dogs are capable of reproducing themselves, I would argue most are not, and why mixing "Great dog Molly" with "Great dog Max" isn't a guarantee of anything more than a litter of puppies.

Or if you got the dog from a shelter/as a rescue/as an "oops"/etc to begin with... WELL??? Those dogs are still out there, they always will be.
Josie- *Forever in- Our Hearts*

Happy to work
Barked: Wed May 29, '13 6:33pm PST 
Josie still would have failed at flyball, she has no interest in tugging on anything..the most interest she has in any toys is to carry around a toy and to sleep with it...she does not tug, she does not rip it up, she will not even touch a ball...she only likes soft stuffed animal like toys.

I showed her in OB and i stopped because I could not get her to do anything with the dumbbell even with multiple experienced trainers helping. She has no interest in retrieving so i really do not think she would have done anything with flyball. I tried to get her into it (the lady who bred her tried to help) but Josie had no interest in doing anything but running around, she would even hit the box but would not touch the ball, nothing we tried worked. She failed even with great genetics behind her.

Giant Shih Tzu
Barked: Fri May 31, '13 1:07pm PST 
Jackson, Tiller, and Mulder - thank you for the insight there, as it really helped me understand exactly why Biscuit (the name did NOT fit her, but it made it cute) was so intense. Intense was really the only word to describe her, and I see what you're saying when you describe how if the DA was gone, she wouldn't have had the same level of drive. It was like she was a coiled spring all the time, and even with constant conditioning and attempts to curb the aggression, there were always set-backs. She wanted hikes hours long, fetch sessions so long she would end up vomiting all the water she drank, and would STILL want to keep going.. It was impossible to tire that dog out, and being only a teenager at the time I had a lot of time and energy to try!

What I wished was that there was some level of control I could have obtained with her. She ended up nearly killing our two smaller terriers she was raised with, and the aggression continued to worsen over time. It may very well have been partly my fault, despite my tireless efforts to train, exercise, and manage her, but being only sixteen at the time, it was not my choice when my Mother decided to have her put down at only three years old. I guess my pain over it, and my wish, was that I could have had the same dog just without the off-the-wall aggression towards her own "pack" members. It was just a devastating situation, to have such an incredible dog, but that couldn't live with any other dogs in sight.

But I fully agree with what you guys presented, and I'm actually thankful to have that further knowledge. I don't think all dogs should have NO DA (Our Chow was VERY DA, but not towards his own canine family members) - I just wish that Biscuit could have at least not had a desire to kill dogs she'd been raised with...

Jackson Tan

Lad about town
Barked: Sat Jun 1, '13 4:17am PST 
It is just so hard to get control of that level of DA off the leash, Gunther, even for really experienced trainers ... Don't feel like you failed Biscuit, it sounds as though you did the best you could with her, and you learned from the experience. You don't often see pits in team sports for that reason. Team sports are best suited for dogs whose drives can be funneled in the right direction without becoming combustive. It doesn't mean a dog like that can't compete in some things, I've seen phenomenal pit disc dogs, you just have to chose your sport carefully is all ... And know and accept your dogs limitations.
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