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Designer Crosses

If you are wondering what is the right dog for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about tail wagging and learning.

  
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Mulder

Spooky Mulder
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 3, '12 7:10am PST 
Many breeders stipulate in their contracts that the dog be returned as a safeguard- NOT because they want you to give up your loved pet in order to get a replacement, but to protect the sick dog from being dumped or euthed without them consenting to it.

Both my contracts have had this clause, but also stipulate that if I want to keep the dog I may do so under the condition they they be neutered and those records be sent to the breeder, at which point I am still entitled to a replacement puppy whenever I'm ready for it. PERSONALLY I find it unreasonable to ask for the full sum of the puppy back should something go wrong- many breeders don't have that upfront to offer back to their puppy buyers. If they do, that's great, and I think it's mighty decent of them to offer support. But there are plenty of breeders who don't make a dime off their dogs, and who simply wouldn't have that as an option.

Most large breed breeders offer a 2 year contract on hips and elbows, because by that point if its GENETIC you're going to know about it. If your dog is diagnosed with HD at 5 years of age, but had been fine prior, then no... that breeder shouldn't be required to give you a dime, as things such as HD can be EVERY bit environmental as genetic.

If your dog suddenly drops dead of cardiomyopathy at 3, however, that's something else entirely and should be covered under a "crippling genetic defect" clause, which all good breeders offer.
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Happy

The Boy Wonder
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 3, '12 9:04am PST 
I can think of a number of 'beefy' low shedding or even non shedding dogs. Old English Sheepdogs have already been mentioned but there are more out there.

My problem with the doodles across the board is no one is breeding for Anything. Nothing at all... just sub par badly bred mixes. And trust me I've seen them all as a groomer and as a service dog handler.

I have nothing against mutts... but I do have something against people who breed dogs for the sole purpose of making money. You really don't make a lot of money if you're a good breeder, by time you do all the health testing and vet care on the parents most breeders would be lucky to break even.

I've yet to see a doodle breeder who is a Good breeder. I don't understand the whole labradoodle crazy Anyway, most of them come out looking like ugly otterhounds. If anyone could give me any decent 'goal' that a breeder had with their stock I might agree with it. But there aren't any.

As for saints and their 'wonderful' temperament, you obviously didn't do a lot of research on them because they're really unstable at the moment as a breed with a lot of aggression issues as well as some terrible health problems. ... Just saying
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Sarge

Teddybear
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 3, '12 9:34am PST 
Here's an article I found on pet md about pure bred dogs and their gene pool. http://www.petmd.com/dog/care/evr_dg_purebred_dogs_complications#.T_ MeP2t5mSM.
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Tyler

Whippy- The- Whipador
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 3, '12 9:34am PST 
I'm not really sure why you like to defend Labradoodles


I didn't know i was as such. I was just pointing out that there are good breeders out there even if i am the only one to ever draw attention to that fact.

I don't disagree with the overall opinion on designer dogs, but sometimes these threads get very one sided and i just like to throw it out there that it's not all doom & gloom.
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y

dog-sitter in- charge.
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 3, '12 9:49am PST 
Sarge, that article is useless and irrelevant to the conversation. Breeders of any sort and of any breed should be concerned with overall COI. In an established breed you have more choice to pick from so as to limit that - that certainly doesn't mean everyone who is breeding cares about it. In a breed with few numbers you either lack the diversity or you have to be ever MORE careful.
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Sarge

Teddybear
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 3, '12 10:14am PST 
It actually isn't irrelavent. It shows that with pure breed dogs there are a limited amount to choose from in the gene pool when you keep choosing certain ones for their desired traits especially ones you can only choose from in the clubs like Akc. The smaller the gene pool the more health problems there are. Even the humane society of America discussed the issue. http://www.humanesociety.org/news/magazines/2010/05-06/the_purebred_ paradox.html. I'm just saying that you can't just say its wrong to try and create new breeds. You shouldn't just assume that people that are breeding these designer dogs are just wrong. I've found several that feel strongly about doing health tests on their dogs before breeding. Yes, there are a lot of bad breeders out there looking to get a quick buck but I don't think you should lump them all together because there are a lot of pure bred dog breeders that do the same. I think you need to look at the breeders on a case by case basis just like the pure bred dog breeders
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y

dog-sitter in- charge.
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 3, '12 10:35am PST 
Your overall argument is contingent upon the fact that there are purebred breeders who also do a really bad job...

ETA: I don't think I ever said the breeders themselves were all 'bad'. More like just not knowledgeable enough and not working with a solid enough foundation, and it seems making puppies seem to be the overall goal and not making quality adult dogs and building a breed. Health tested stock is the MINIMUM to put any two dogs together, definitely not the pinnacle of quality.

For all these designer dog breeders, they never talk about knowledge of the lines (if any solid ones exist) and what they hope they can establish in their program which is still under development, but rather the overall program seems to be directed towards 'WE HAVE PUPPIES! Coco x Max, 5 girls and 4 boys, please contact us!'. I don't really understand who would pay money to have an experimental, unfinished 'product' of a breeding program in foundation...

If someone were to actually be serious about it and not have any commercial interest in it, and not be interested in selling experimental puppies to the general public, it might say something more.

Edited by author Tue Jul 3, '12 10:44am PST

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Augusta,- CGC, RN

Such a Good Dog!
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 3, '12 11:01am PST 
If I'm not mistaken, although he was the product of an oops litter, former Dogster Nick was a lab-poodle cross, and from all accounts he's one outstanding dog . . . that said, I think when Nick's dad was looking for another dog he was not going to go looking for a labradoodle on purpose. I've met another labradoodle who is easily one of the best trained, most biddable dogs in the neighborhood. So this throwing the baby out with the bath water is going overboard I think . . ..

I mean while I don't agree with purpose breeding crazy designer crosses for a quick buck, I'm not sure about the idea that they are somehow more likely to be disasters health and temperament wise than any other random oops mutt . . . .shrug

People cross breed horses all the time and as long as both parents compliment each other's qualities, it can work out very nicely, but I guess horses haven't as breeds been nearly so differentiated from each other as dogs (nor bred with nearly as many unhealthy recessive mutant traits like brachycephaly).
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Buster

1201864
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 3, '12 12:49pm PST 
There are some good doodle breeders especially in the longer established crosses labradoodles and cockapoos etc. There are people on another forum I go on sometimes that have set up a cockapoo club only reputable breeders that fully health test, don't guarantee shedding/hypoallergenic etc. I don't have an issue with breeding crosses properly as long as you're not going to cause serious issues in the puppies there's a guy crossing among others basset hound and shar pei frown in a whole puppy mill situation.

There's a purebred for what everyone wants I think but as long as they're going to reputable crossbreeders then that should be ok. I feel I should say my next puppy will be a purebred from a show breeder and I would never buy a cross only rescue but I do like the look of bedlington/whippet lurchers
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Lady Bird

I love Klondike
 
 
Barked: Tue Jul 3, '12 1:07pm PST 
Saint Bernards are great dogshappy dancehappy dancehappy dancehappy dancehappy dancehappy dancehappy dancehappy dancehappy dancehappy dancehappy dance
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