question about red spoodles

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Mulder

Spooky Mulder

Barked: Tue Apr 24, '12 8:47am PST


	So for all you Standard Poodle people- what's the deal with reds? I've been poking around a few breeder's sites, and it seems like to me that either no one with any prominence is using them, else the ones that are aren't getting CHs on them. At best I've found some people who do other things with them (therapy work, OB), but no one really seems to be showing them. Is there a reason for this? I'm not aware of red being a fault... perhaps just less favorable? The reds are my favorite, so, ya know... what a shame if that's the case!

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Jewel, PCD

8.6lbs of fury- in a bow!

Barked: Tue Apr 24, '12 8:50am PST


	From my (limited) understanding the coloured poodles (anything other than black & white) have a harder time in the ring. Also I believe the reds and apricots tend to have coats that don't have as tight a curl.

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Riley

We don't doodle.

Barked: Tue Apr 24, '12 9:10am PST


	yu, Jewel got it right, most reds have bad coats. Even Riley who comes from a long, long line of CH. reds, doesn't have as nice a coat as my blacks and whites.

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Mulder

Spooky Mulder

Barked: Tue Apr 24, '12 9:22am PST


	Does that make any difference to anything outside of the show ring?

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Happy

The Boy Wonder

Barked: Tue Apr 24, '12 9:23am PST


	It's also a color that is really hard to get, and doesn't tend to stay as dark/crisp and clear as a lot of other colors. It tends to fade and sometimes patchy which makes it a hard color to show. There are a few breeders in Canada who show red, and I've seen more in UKC than in AKC just because it's easier to get the CH. Standard poodles are one of those hard breeds to get points on unless you're a)well known, b)showing a black or white (chocolates/browns have a hard go of it too) or both of the above. And yes their coats are thinner and finer with less dense curl because it's hard to Keep that color a intense red which makes breeding for coat quality harder. Edit : Structurally not all of them are as sound as some other colors, you have to watch a breeder who is breeding Only for color which is why most breeders stay away from that color. It's too hard to get that deep dark red, you see a larger pool of them in toy's and minis so it seems to be easier to breed them. Edited by author Tue Apr 24, '12 9:31am PST

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dog-sitter in- charge.

Barked: Tue Apr 24, '12 9:30am PST


	Outside of a show ring, I believe the lack of tight curl on lots of red poodle coats make it less water-friendly. It gets 'soaked' and seems to stay that way longer.

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Jewel, PCD

8.6lbs of fury- in a bow!

Barked: Tue Apr 24, '12 9:35am PST


	I'm personally staying away from reds in my seach for a second poodle due to the coat quality. I have no plans for conformation but I'm learning the grooming basics on Jewel who's coat (due to being a mix) doesn't hold up some of the more interesting poodle grooms. I want to be able to do those on my second and I worry that a red's coat wouldn't hold them as well as a black's coat would.

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Mulder

Spooky Mulder

Barked: Tue Apr 24, '12 9:40am PST


	Happy, I would venture to say that's true for just about anything, though. Breed too tightly for too long and there's bound to be problems. Is one of the Canadian kennels Arreau? That's the website I've been looking at. From the looks of their breeding page they outcross to other colors and take into consideration COI, type, all that good stuff. I guess I was hoping there was a kennel out there that was fabulous, but also using/producing reds. Of course there's everything wrong with breeding JUST for color... but we all have our preferences

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Trigger

*Blackdog*

Barked: Tue Apr 24, '12 10:28am PST


	I heart Dudley's. So I feel your confusion lol

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Toto, CD,- RN, CGC

We don't do- doodles!!!

Barked: Tue Apr 24, '12 11:51am PST


	Lilith is right about water... Beanie gets wet to the skin and the others usually can shake it off. Riley's coat is better than Beanies, but even his is difficult to keep the topknot standing and the ears from matting... fine coat matts easier as well. However, that is not to say you don't find bad black or white coats...it happens as well. Red is a recessive, just like brown poodles and chocolate labs, so getting it isn't that hard, it's just harder to FIND decent ones to use for breeding because for years people bred ONLY for color, just like the chocolate labs of a couple of decades ago... if you breed an inferior specimen to an inferior specimen just because they are the right color, pretty soon you will have a bunch of really inferior specimens only to choose from. Most poodle breeders I know will breed a red to a black that carries red to help the coat AND the conformation.

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