GO!

The show ring and its effects on dog breeds

If you are wondering what is the right dog for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about tail wagging and learning.

  
(Page 1 of 3: Viewing entries 1 to 10)  
Page Links: 1  2  3  


Member Since
03/19/2012
 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 9, '12 9:04am PST 
Hello, i'm doing a research paper on dog shows and how they effect dog breeding. A lot of dogster threads have contributed to my research thus far such as a working line vs. show line thread, and another thread displaying pictures of what breeds have looked like in the past. You guys have also mentioned dog breeds exposed, and the follow up. I wanted to thank you guys for this!
I was wondering if you guys read anything interesting that you might recommend.
A few topics i'm interested in include:
-Differences in breed standards in foreign countries and their effects
-breeders adding their own "flair"to their lines
-consequences or benefits of breed standards
-any more info on show vs working lines
-crufts dog show controversy
-"softening" breeds
-out crossing different breeds
-changing breed standards
Thanks again Dogsters!

Edit: Edited first post to reflect my purpose. I am relatively new to the dog world myself, so sorry if I come off as if I don't understand the subject to a great extent - this is really the purpose of this thread. puppy

Edited by author Mon Apr 9, '12 10:14am PST

[notify]


Member Since
03/19/2012
 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 9, '12 9:07am PST 
Also how would you describe the purpose of dog shows? How can you relate it to someone who has never seen a dog show?
[notify]
Squ'mey

too old to eat- any more KD
 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 9, '12 9:20am PST 
A couple of things to bear in mind, Guest.
First, while Dogster is full of very knowledgable folks, unless you do the research yourself, it will not be YOUR paper. Folks can give opinions, but papers require facts & sources..especially a research paper. Personally, I think you should do your own research for your own paper.
Second..you have chosen a very touchy, subjective topic. How you will make this an objective paper should be interesting. Could you post it for us when you are done?smile
[notify]



Member Since
01/04/2009
 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 9, '12 9:38am PST 
I agree with sq'mey (sp??)

I could tell you what my opinion is on how the show ring affected my breed, but there are somewhere around a total of 150 breeds in the AKC, and every breed has been affected differently. Plus, I am just one person, and my opinion may not be the same as some one else's, and on down the line.

Also, the AKC isn't even the only registry that holds dog shows; you have the UKC, the CKC (Canadian Kennel Club), the Kennel Club (that's in Britian), and then you also have FCI standards.

So, are you going to narrow the registry to just one? If you do just one registry (AKC for example), then bringing up Crufts wouldn't make sense, because that takes place in the UK and their standards aren't exactly the same as those used in the AKC. Unless, that is, you have an opinion over which set of standards you like better, and I can't see how you'd get that experience unless you were really dedicated to one particular breed.

What you aren't thinking about is how the judges affect certain breeds, because an "all around" judge will likely pick a different dog then a breeder judge. So, it's always not the "show ring" as you put it, but rather the judges that put up what dogs and why, and that's an impossibly long topic.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck on this controversial topic.
[notify]


Member Since
03/19/2012
 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 9, '12 9:46am PST 
I'm in no way trying to have people do my paper for me, I guess that came off the wrong way. I was more or less looking for people to point me in the right direction. I should probably try to be more specific too because it seems to cover too much information. I have done a lot of research on this topic thus far, and was wondering if someone read an interesting article on the subject they would recommend.

Thanks for the suggestion guest, I didn't even consider certain judges! Lol that's a whole topic on its own. shock

Edited by author Mon Apr 9, '12 10:06am PST

[notify]


Member Since
03/19/2012
 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 9, '12 11:18am PST 
I'm thinking perhaps rounding it down to breed standards and the effects of them and also how they are created....thinking
Because you're right, mentioning dog shows is a septate topic.
[notify]
Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 9, '12 11:55am PST 
Guest...I don't think that was Squ'mey's point. But rather, than coming here for info is somewhat tantamount to going into a bar laugh out loud

A lot of people here have opinions. And that is what you get....opinions. Very valid in and of themselves, of course, but unless your paper is about the opinions of the pet owners regarding the show world, then not wholly appropriate.

Very few people here actually work dogs. Very few people here have more than novice level experience with the show world. A, to me, frustratingly small percentage belong to their breed clubs. Or, to a working club. As for pet owners, opinions here are very valid, and sort of what, whether talking about show vs work, or a natural breed vs an extreme breed, etc., bring things down to earth. "Keep it real," as they say. But they are not experts, often don't know the intricacies of what they are talking about....not that they would need to do or be to have an opinion, but in terms of a paper, their credibility and quote-ability is quite small. SAVE, as I said, for the paper being about pet owner opinions regarding the show world, such as a paper which presents how the show world's interpretation of the dog vs the pet owner may differ.

I can tell you, being a dog fancy historian of sorts myself, that doing a paper like this, as regards the questions you asked, would be a huge undertaking. Worth doing, of course! But it would be something of very extensive study. To be done it would have entail a study of the beginnings of the dog fancy/show world dynamic, which will push you back into the early 1800's. The formation of the kennel clubs. The history of breeds and their relationships to breed standards. Research into the health committees of all national breed clubs. Research into the function preservation wings of all breeds to which it is appropriate. Research into the effects of the growing sport titling venues, from the perspective of both working and show people. Research, certainly, into how standards have been revised in the past century, would be core to such a paper. As well as might be familiarizing yourself with the formation of the CHIC database, etc., what participation it has, how it is being used, its potential and so on.
[notify]
Happy

The Boy Wonder
 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 9, '12 12:21pm PST 
What Tiller said is true, though there are a few of us that work dogs (I have had working border collies for most of my life, and Australian Cattle dogs before that) but what you're going to get... is opinion. It may be an opinion based in fact or genetic research but still opinion.

I'll add there could be whole books devoted to how show has affected one breed, and trends so it is a massive undertaking.

I'd be more than willing to give you my Opinion on how show affects my border collies but keep in mind that it would be a different opinion than someone who shows border collies and is involved with the AKC. I have been involved with the show world, my grandmother raised and showed Afghans. I work my dogs, I trial my dogs, I'm involved with two working slanted breed clubs. I'll tell you that the drama surrounding Border collies in the AKC show ring was a hard fought battle and recent so you can also find a lot of information on it on the internet.
[notify]
Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 9, '12 3:12pm PST 
@ Happy....you were actually the one on my mind when I said "a few" way to go

@ Guest...one of the things you'd need to do is keep your paper narrow enough to make a conclusion. Think of an objective. Such as Breed Standards:The Pros and Cons. There are some breeds that have literally been salvaged from oblivion through standards, some that have been compromised, some where extremes are actively promoted by the wording of the standard, some not. The Bulldog standard mandates, in terms of judging the structure of the dog, awarding 50% to the head, vs the rest of the body. The Pug standard pressures judges to award a very tightly curled tail, which is actually a genetic deformity that can lead to spinal issues. This vs the standard of some other extreme breeds (GSD, let's say), where it has more been a interpretative issue vs the wording of the standard itself.

It's very hard to use the standard in a work vs show debate. Breeds like the BC long avoided a quest for uniformity. Breeds like the GSD were built on a standard. So whereas to preserve the integrity of the BC, a quest towards no standardization was insisted upon, for the GSD, that quest insisted on such a review for the dog to be stamped as breeding quality. Both very famed working breeds, with very different paths taken.

You might, in theory, be able to review all standards, see how they have been changed and worded through the years and draw some supported conclusions as to how changes in the standard have affected breeds. How much standards have changed in the past fifty years, let's say, and what that has affected and not. And draw conclusions that way.
[notify]


Member Since
03/19/2012
 
 
Barked: Mon Apr 9, '12 6:03pm PST 
Thanks for the information everyone. Yeah I realized with my topic will have very heavy opinions. I planned on balancing it out by giving both opinions in a positive light, as well as showing the negatives of both options. I also have to thin it out a bit. Still in the process of figuring out what I want to add or get rid of.

I in no way plan on doing every breed. laugh out loud That would be extremely intense. This is a pretty lax research paper. I plan on covering around 5-6 breeds probably. A brachycephalic breed, a herding breed (good example in working lines vs show lines, like BC?), rhodesian ridgeback, German Shepherds (mention White German Shepherd), Cavalier - I also think the Doberman would be interesting because of what is involved with docking/cropping and how that is illegal in some places not to mention I've seen a lot of people say the American lines have been softened. Give or take a few.

Edited by author Mon Apr 9, '12 6:07pm PST

[notify]
  (Page 1 of 3: Viewing entries 1 to 10)  
Page Links: 1  2  3