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The Miniature Schnauzer: An In-Depth Consideration

If you are wondering what is the right dog for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about tail wagging and learning.

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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Tue Mar 26, '13 4:40pm PST 
That's would be silly were it not so tragic.

But for the record, can you tell me how many generations your dogs have been health tested? Probably not. Titles? Um, probably not.

But what I can tell YOU is the plethora of BYBs I have seen pop up in shelters. Oh yes, even by their breeders. Mutts ARE great - I couldn't agree more. And plenty of them are in shelters DYING. So that people can go get their Schnauzer Aussie thinger-do and say that mutts are great.

There is no reason on this earth to cross Schnauzer with Aussie to get a coat color. You lose the correct Schnauzer temperament, and in many cases the prominent beard and eyebrows of a Mini, which by the way is how you REALLY tell a Schnauzer, not "stance."

You have intact dogs, which speaks very poorly of the integrity of ethics of your breeder. Lest someone of utter lack of understanding of the proper and ethical breeding of purebred dogs decide to farm some of their own.

And yes, my Schnauzers are way too good for crossbreeding. For there is only ONE Schnauzer. And only ONE reason to breed a Schnauzer, which is to better the breed. And there is only one mutt. Mutts are marvelous, but when you outcross a Schnauzer you no longer have a Schnauzer. So what was the point? Dogs for dollars frown
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Bunny

Black dogs rock!
 
 
Barked: Tue Mar 26, '13 5:20pm PST 
Guest said:

"Just think it's funny that you really care"

You would be amazed at what we care about here wink
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Bender

1289788
 
 
Barked: Tue Mar 26, '13 7:33pm PST 
I guess so. Tiller is just someone who takes way to much time out to care about others and make them feel inferior. Don't care what you think. There is no difference in breeding two pure breads and selling the pups. That is the only way you get papered schnauzers in the first place, unless of course you are lucky enough to find one in the shelter. Any real mini came from a breeder originally. Therefore, without these breeders you don't get your "real" minis. At that time we looked we could not find any. Again either way, love my pups to death and our male is definitely schnauzer because people ask me all the time why are your schnauzers that color(which by the way, they compliment). The male has a very prominent beard and eye brows. They only have 10% aussie in their blood line. People bread dogs everyday. They needed a home too, the male was being badly attacked by another dog in the home so we decided to adopt him. I understand adopting from the shelters is better but that is my business.
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Mulder

Spooky Mulder
 
 
Barked: Tue Mar 26, '13 7:48pm PST 
Guest has an ax to grind with people who actually give a crap about how dogs are bred and reared laugh out loud

Its not even the weekend yet... guess it must be a full moon laugh out loudbig laugh
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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Tue Mar 26, '13 9:34pm PST 
First of all, it is pureBRED, not pure bread unless you are getting a recipe from a cookbook.

Secondly, there is a BIG difference. Done right, dogs are tested to ensure they screen free of genetic illness and with some conditions that develop over time are tested annually to ensure they are are not starting to occur. Secondly, believing that only superior individuals should be bred, dogs are shown and earn titles by being judged best against other dogs of their breed. In the optimum, dogs will also be shown in a venue of some kind to establish their trainability and mind, such as in obedience or agility. There is tremendous dedication, time and expense that goes behind all this, all to ensure that only stellar individuals are being produced, which is an assurance most expect when purchasing a breeder puppy.

I am not of the intention to make anyone feel inferior. I certainly did not bring up the subject of incorrect color, I was only responding to that not being a Miniature Schnauzer. In terms of being mutts, in 1926 the breed was officially recognized. That is by my count 87 years since there has been ANY crossbred considered to be a Miniature Schnauzer. All to be registered since that time without deception were the product of breeding Mini to Mini.

As for your breeder, they have sold you two puppies, one male and one female. A lot of people here would have a LOT to say about the ethics of that. Whatever your intentions so be it, but there is no way, no how you will get a lot of support here for your breeders ethics not being dubious. That is not what you do if you are doing it right, and there are FAR more people than just me on here who will rebel against merle Minis being Miniature Schnauzers at all. They are not. They are BYB dogs, they are in no way condoned by the national breed club, and no Mini breeder worth their salt (or pepper) would have dogs they have devoted their lives to bettering be involved in such a breeding enterprise.

That is not to say that individuals can't be very nice dogs loved by their owners. But they are rarely health tested, have no titles, do not stem from top stock, and thereby it's luck of the draw as to how healthy or balanced they will be. Particularly from a breed that notoriously suffers on both issues when bred indiscriminately. If one wants a Mini, they are great dogs. Heavily milled and BYB'd and suffering from a long list of health problems and temperament instability because of it, the ONLY place to get a Mini and be reasonably assured you are getting just that, as well as one healthy and sound in mind, is to go to someone who devotes their lives to the BREED, belongs to the national breed club and all its health committees, specialities on so on, and who titles and tests.
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Bunny

Black dogs rock!
 
 
Barked: Wed Mar 27, '13 3:40am PST 
Guest, I don't see Tiller trying to make you feel inferior. I see her trying to educate you. I have learned a huge amount after being on dogster for years, much of it learned from Tiller, among many other caring dogsters. There are many , many people here on dogster involved in rescue in some way , shape or form who are not necessarily involved with shelters (including Tiller). Many of them have dealt with the results of puppy mills and backyard breeders. I am glad you appear to have rescued one of your dogs, but no one here would fault you getting a dog from a *good* breeder. Brief defination of a good breeder? One that health tests the breeding stock for *generations* back, one that titles their dogs in approriate activities and one that shows their dogs for all the reasons Tiller mentioned. Absoutely nothing wrong with loving your dogs for what they are, but breeding dogs without the guidelines I mentioned above, well, you aren't going to find very many people on this site who will agree with yousmile
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Bender

1289788
 
 
Barked: Wed Mar 27, '13 7:45am PST 
And that is fine. I as I said no biggie. My breeder was has done a very good job making sure that the blood line is healthy. My point was to let people know that outcrossing happens all the time. The standard had to be outcrossed with a small breed to acquire the mini size right? Well what is difference between outcrossing for a color, and outcrossing for a size. There really isn't one. My breeder took every precaution to assure healthy pups. I just don't want people getting the wrong impression about the breed because my two are amazing. It seems that there is a stigma attached to including the merle color, if you do it right there should not be a problem. Tiller goes as far o say "if you didn't like the breed get another type". That was not the case I wanted dogs who act schnauzer and look schnauzer but just had a different color. The MSCA is trying to register only the properly bred merles. Mine have the highest of their registry(which again I couldn't care less about this, but its insures no inbreeding and so on). I stumbled upon the breed and don't feel there is anything wrong with the inclusion of a color or a size. It's all personal preference.
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Bender

1289788
 
 
Barked: Wed Mar 27, '13 7:49am PST 
And yes I do have full screening of both dogs. A full list of the blood line and genetic testing. I don't need support from anyone. Just letting you know you don't know much about the breed. We did our research. And the MSCA is a real registry and recognizes the breed as a new one. Only the properly bred can be registered (same with the AKC), full documentation is required to do that. So yes AKC has been around longer, but the breed has been recognized. These are just organizations. So again what is the difference? AKC, MSCA, they both there to ensure proper breeding and high quality. And again then if you are saying the mini was recognized, well this breed has been now too. You should look at the MSCA website and read about the breed. The AKC is watching the breed very closely and eventually will hopefully include the breed. Tiller should really visit the website. Maybe it would give a better understanding of the breed.

Edited by author Wed Mar 27, '13 8:07am PST

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Cohen CD RE- ADC SGDC- FDCh CGN

The Monster
 
 
Barked: Wed Mar 27, '13 9:45am PST 
Quote: AKC, MSCA, they both there to ensure proper breeding and high quality.

The AKC does little to nothing (stronger argument for the latter) to ensure proper breeding and high quality.

I'm confused - are you planning on breeding your two? I think it'd be a different issue if you were planning on breeding vs. simply owning a pet. A breeder takes on a tremendous amount of responsibility to ensure the quality of their dogs. A pet owner shouldn't support unscrupulous breeders, but no one should demean the value of your current dogs as pets.
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Bender

1289788
 
 
Barked: Wed Mar 27, '13 10:13am PST 
We are not going to breed. As I said just wanted to educate about this particular breed, and defend the fact that there is nothing wrong with cross breeding as long as the breeder is doing it properly and not compromising the health of the dog. Why is it so frowned upon? And what is a Pillsbury-dough-bread-dog? What are you 5? You're calling my dogs a "hilarious" name? That shows what a well educated person you are, do you feel better now? applause

Edited by author Wed Mar 27, '13 10:16am PST

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